Possible change to guildchat

[Kretol]

Well that was a long read, but I think I have a simple compromise to propose (hopefully I didn't miss someone else suggesting it):

Don't change guildchat at all for the time being, simply add a broad RP channel, encourage people to use it, and see how it goes. Then, after a month or two, revisit this and see how people feel it has worked.

That solution preserves the integrity of guild chat (something I am honestly in favor of) while still "broadening the canvas" for RPing. If the vast majority of RPing moves to the channel then great. Either way no one feels that the sanctity of guildchat has been violated.

Unfortunately, as Mir has already touched on, having both will potentially lessen the quality or popularity of either or. You will not get the full experience to test it unless you actually go through all the way, so to speak.

Furthermore, offering to revisit the situation a month or two down the line is, I believe, missing the point. Cataclysm is almost upon us, and numerous points have already been made as to how it has changed (or will change) guilds. Sure, the expansion will bring back old faces (and potentially introduce new ones), but please re-read about the points made regarding people departing if their primary focus is not [currently] roleplay.

[Deeke]

Apparently my input to this has been moved to the "General Gossip" forum...

Though yes, it does address more than simply this topic. So I suppose moving it wasn't that bad... though as apparently that letting anyone know it was moved was overlooked (it can happen to anyone and is assumed as an honest oversight), I thought I'd note it here.

In case anyone wishes to read it there and respond in that thread both to what was addressed abotu this thread as well as other posted concerns.

Deeke

[Eruadan]

This may sound like a bad idea, but what if we were to implement some sort of schedule where OOC wont be enforced in Guild Chat, and other times where it will be. Like Guild Off Hours and Guild Heavy Hours. For Example....:

Mon-Fri OOC Chat OK from 12AM - 4PM
Mon - Fri IC Chat Only from 4PM-12AM

Saturday/Sunday IC Only

RP Events to be Scheduled as IC time if made during OOC Hours.

These are just example times but it was just a thought I had....

[Melikar]

This may sound like a bad idea, but what if we were to implement some sort of schedule where OOC wont be enforced in Guild Chat, and other times where it will be. Like Guild Off Hours and Guild Heavy Hours. For Example....:

Mon-Fri OOC Chat OK from 12AM - 4PM
Mon - Fri IC Chat Only from 4PM-12AM

Saturday/Sunday IC Only

RP Events to be Scheduled as IC time if made during OOC Hours.

These are just example times but it was just a thought I had....

That just sounds overly complicated.

99.9% of the time, people wouldn't remember when it is and when it isn't okay to RP. And you should never feel like you cant RP in IST. We are an RP guild, you can RP whenever you want. Just, switching things around is what people seem to want here.

[Eruadan]

We are an RP guild....

Everyone who is against this idea keeps slapping this comment in faces of those who are open to the idea of change...let me tell you something. WE KNOW WE ARE AN RP GUILD! All of us in here do. You fail to understand the bigger picture here....What is being discussed here is how we can better accomodate a broader range of players by doing something as simple as altering WHERE our Role Playing happens. It seems to me like you all feel like its being disposed of...that is hardly the case at all.

Consider our guild a shop...we sell Apples (RP)...all kinds of delicious apples...in order to sell those apples, people (roleplayers) need to see them. But currently, our shop has no windows (aka guild chat). If people walking buy our shop cannot see the apples inside...why would they be tempted to come into the shop and buy apples? Now...if we were to put our apples into a shop WITH windows (aka RPChannel) then people walking buy would be able to see our apples, without having to go inside our shop to see them (RP with us without having to apply and join the guild first). Those that find those apples appealing, will be more likely to go inside the shop (join the guild) and will know what they like about the apples already. If we keep things the way they are, people may indeed come into our current shop , but some may find that they do not like our apples, or just weren't looking for apples at all, and that is not what we want. A better venue will give us the opportunity to sell our apples to everyone (Silver Hand) and not just the occasional passer by.

I hope you enjoyed my apple metaphor, and apologize for those of you who don't understand it at all...It certainly made sense in my head...

[Guest]

I think having two channels to RP in will get overly complicated. Will we dup post? will one take place somewhere else? Also as far as I'm concered there is too much that can go wrong with a global channel. We wont be able to control who uses it (ie grifers) and honestly I shouldn't have to /ignore people in one of our own channels.

[Lucinther]

Well that was a long read, but I think I have a simple compromise to propose (hopefully I didn't miss someone else suggesting it):

Don't change guildchat at all for the time being, simply add a broad RP channel, encourage people to use it, and see how it goes. Then, after a month or two, revisit this and see how people feel it has worked.

That solution preserves the integrity of guild chat (something I am honestly in favor of) while still "broadening the canvas" for RPing. If the vast majority of RPing moves to the channel then great. Either way no one feels that the sanctity of guildchat has been violated.

I couldn't possibly agree with Kosath more. In fact, over the past couple of days, all of the Iron-singers have been talking about exactly this.

Unfortunately, as Mir has already touched on, having both will potentially lessen the quality or popularity of either or. You will not get the full experience to test it unless you actually go through all the way, so to speak.

Furthermore, offering to revisit the situation a month or two down the line is, I believe, missing the point. Cataclysm is almost upon us, and numerous points have already been made as to how it has changed (or will change) guilds. Sure, the expansion will bring back old faces (and potentially introduce new ones), but please re-read about the points made regarding people departing if their primary focus is not [currently] roleplay.

If we are going to make guild chat OOC and make a global RP channel... we will also be segregating the active RPers from the guild.... Now, from my understanding, we are trying to keep people from feeling segregated and disconnect from the guild... how is this solving that issue?

I don't think anyone is really considering the amount of work that would have to go into making this idea of a global RP channel actually work. Hours upon hours will have to be dedicated to making it work... how many officers can honestly take the time to work on solely that? Ultimately, the only ones that have the time are the Ironsingers. Its not something that is going to magically have all this influx of RPers from the server joining this channel. Months wouldn't be enough for it to work the way its being thought of. And after months of work? With only the same few people in the channel? People are still going to feel disconnected from the guild and will feel segregated.

[Melikar]

We are an RP guild....

Everyone who is against this idea keeps slapping this comment in faces of those who are open to the idea of change...let me tell you something. WE KNOW WE ARE AN RP GUILD! All of us in here do. You fail to understand the bigger picture here....What is being discussed here is how we can better accomodate a broader range of players by doing something as simple as altering WHERE our Role Playing happens. It seems to me like you all feel like its being disposed of...that is hardly the case at all.

Consider our guild a shop...we sell Apples (RP)...all kinds of delicious apples...in order to sell those apples, people (roleplayers) need to see them. But currently, our shop has no windows (aka guild chat). If people walking buy our shop cannot see the apples inside...why would they be tempted to come into the shop and buy apples? Now...if we were to put our apples into a shop WITH windows (aka RPChannel) then people walking buy would be able to see our apples, without having to go inside our shop to see them (RP with us without having to apply and join the guild first). Those that find those apples appealing, will be more likely to go inside the shop (join the guild) and will know what they like about the apples already. If we keep things the way they are, people may indeed come into our current shop , but some may find that they do not like our apples, or just weren't looking for apples at all, and that is not what we want. A better venue will give us the opportunity to sell our apples to everyone (Silver Hand) and not just the occasional passer by.

I hope you enjoyed my apple metaphor, and apologize for those of you who don't understand it at all...It certainly made sense in my head...

Eru, don't get all pissy with me. I don't *fail* to see a bigger picture. I know exactly what it is that Sreng has proposed and what those who want the change are saying. I'm not saying I'm entirely against it, just what we've had for the last six years and how it's worked.

As Lucin said, the Iron-Singers have been discussing the pros and cons of such a system and we're leaning more towards what Kosath said for the time being. Also as stated before, the guild chat could simply remain IC conversation within the guild hall and the IronsongRP channel could be for events outside the guild hall with others both in and out of IST.

Horde-side Silver Hand RP is dead. So dead that showing off those "apples in the window" as you put it really will not do us any good. This game is old, it's not getting many new players these days. What we have now is most likely to remain that way until it all eventually dies off. I see Ironsong's name brought up constantly when there is anyone Horde-side looking for RP contacts. And if I see someone, I don't hesitate to let them know we're here.

[Guest]

Except then you'd be excluding friends and non-guilded alts from OOC conversation...

This was my initial concern with this change. Before I'd given a whole lot of thought to the RP implications and before others had sparked a stronger resistance to the idea. However, universally those who are for this change addressed this concern by saying that we'd keep ironsongOOC and it wouldn't be a problem.

Yet when the suggestion is made to have two RP channels, you all have concerns of one of the channels being dead or it being overly complicated with having parallel channels? There's a goose and gander comment in there somewhere.

[Kretol]

Yet when the suggestion is made to have two RP channels, you all have concerns of one of the channels being dead or it being overly complicated with having parallel channels? There's a goose and gander comment in there somewhere.

There would be, if the case was that there were equal parts RP in guildchat and OOC in IronsongOOC... or if everyone in guild were participating in both channels. The point made numerous times before is that there is not. Everyone has legitimate reasons to communicate OOCly and there's no restriction from "fitting in" or the like. On the contrary, with RP it is quite restricted as it is now (which has been touched on before - essentially, "tavern-style RP", which not all characters would participate in).

[rincewindy]

Some (more) thoughts:

Here's how I would presume that 2 channel RP would work:

1.Guild chat would be used primarily. IronsongRP would be used if, and only if, a guest started RP with us. We would still be able to continue our RP in Guild chat, but we'd also be able to RP with our guests too.

My only concern about having a guest RP channel is that if it becomes very successful, things might get as hectic as trade chat does, and it might be difficult for some to keep up with everything that's being said. I certainly know what that feels like being at a busy moot.

2. I personally don't think that Guild chat should be switched to OOC, strictly. I don't mind the occasional ((ooc)) in Guild chat either though. Turning it into a hybrid ((OOC))/RP channel gives the impression that we're a casual RP guild and might send the wrong impression to new members. Unless we are going that route. ((Please say no, Please say no.))

3. I would hope that none of the RP that goes on in the guild intimidates other guild members. I would suggest to everyone who does RP in guild chat to make it open for anyone to join in. Keep everyone else in mind. Give opportunities for 'join ins'. I personally know how difficult it is to RP with folks I'm not familiar with or haven't RP'd with in a while.

4. What if someone wants to Raid more than RP? Perhaps we could put that in our notes? For example, my notes would read "Mula Mula" -RP/Raid, because I want to do both. Or if you don't feel like RP'ing for a bit, just say "Mula Mula" - on RP vacation. Or whatnot.

[Oryx]

Mula, if you think Ironsong is a "hard-core RP" guild, I think you may want to re-read the Code of Conduct. The core values of Ironsong are respect, maturity, humility, and role-playing. The Code says that GC should in-character "as much as possible" - and that's all it says. The ((OOC))/RP rule is, in fact, in the Code, and has been how the channel has operated for most of its 6-year history -- this strict insistence on RP is a development of the last eighteen months or so.

I would hope that we aren't "hard-core" anything. Hard-core means exclusion, inflexibility, and an insistence on only interacting with the most dedicated players -- in any playstyle. Hard-core RP is as damaging to community as hard-core raiding, PvP, or anything else. Many IST members are here for the maturity and the respect, and enjoy the RP as a bonus -- that is by design, and is something we should celebrate and protect.

Personally, I would be glad to see casual RP in GC, with ((OOC)) for in-game communication as needed - though there's not much that can't be handled ICly. That is, I'd like to see chat about WoW, but in-character. Not a strict insistence on a particular scene or setting, but not a random chat channel for whatever crosses somebody's mind either. GC should be used to strengthen and serve our community.

[Guest]

I kinda like that last idea Mula. There was a time where Aracna went missing for a few days but I still came online with the character. People kept trying to talk to me in Guild chat I had had to repeat a few times ((ara isn't there)). The whole her missing was supposed to be for a week or two but I could only do it for 3 days because of the activity of trying to talk to her...but no one wondering where she went or why. And like most of us there are days I don't want to rp...i'm busy with a project or raiding (Luc can tell you stories of me trying rp while raiding or talking on vent..it jsut can't happen) or grumpy from a bad day...it happens to all of us.

But that would also mean people would need to read the tags and that dosn't happen much.