The Ironsong Tribe - Priest

Cataclysm Preview: Priest

Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:06:58 -0700

For those who avoid WoW forums like the plague. Here is some interesting information for the upcoming expansion.

Priest Preview

Priest Talent Preview

Discipline Priests...say hello to Power Word: Barrier...its Back!

Bubbles, Power, Pain, and Archangels (Discipline Guide)

Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:03:31 -0800

So, here we are again. I have used a similar format as the original guide but modified it somewhat for current/upcoming Cataclysm features/changes. Ultimately none of this is set in stone and you are free to make your own choices. This is intended to be a guideline for new/existing priests. I certainly welcome questions and feedback as there are some views that I am currently unable to see.

It is a work in progress at the moment so some information may not be entirely accurate but I intend to update as Cataclysm is released and I make my way to Raiding level. Unfortunately I am unable to assist with Player versus Player information as I have not partaken in that aspect of the game with Eru'Adan that much (which may change).

Thank you and I hope you find this helpful.

-Eru'Adan

Priest's of Northrend

Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:54:24 -0800

Just something I came across that I found interesting.... http://dwarfpriest.com/2008/11/11/wotlk-...val-guide/

Quite detailed...there is more emphasis it seems on Discipline/Holy healing priests but has a few points on DPS and a couple on Shadow priests...

More interesting since it has always been on my mind since the spellpower change and seeing some of the new items in WotLK is how to gear your priest for Healing that is...the same author has a guide on that as well...also very detailed with a whole lot of math involved that I cannot comprehend.... http://dwarfpriest.com/2008/11/07/weighi...ing-stats/

Enjoy!

Question....

Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:53:54 -0800

CHANGED TOPIC, SEE LAST POST FOR QUESTION....

The shadow priests job summerized

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:44:46 -0700

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jNbFYSXON6Q

a second priest

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 02:16:13 -0800

Has anyone else been tempted to (or actually followed through) leveling a second priest on the same server. I love the possibilities RP with my spec, but lurking and reading the experiences of my fellow priests makes me cringe. Constant respecs, dissing in groups for not being a certain spec and wanted to respec, etc. Is it worth it for me to lvl a second priest to not only have some RP fun with, but be able to switch between thanuist and this new one depending on what is needed?

Or would it perhaps be better to lvl another class that can heal and switch between those? Really not too into that when I look at other class healing options, but meh.

I love thanu, I love the RP aspect of the priest specs, but I also want to be able to take on what's needed in groups.

Shadow Priest vs AV

Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:24:15 -0800

I'll get the RCSL thing done soon, I promise. Shaman's done, holy paladin one most of the way, so SPriests will get my attention soon soon soon. In the meantime, to prove I've been using some of my free time productively, I present the below.

Let's see some stinking smitesmite disc-wuss do THAT :lol:

[attachment=0]

Holy/Disc, Disc/holy, or Shadow/Disc and the leveling priest

Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:29:39 -0800

I just want to know since I have a new priest which of these would be best for leveling as a priest I kinda like haveing the 30% continued regen from Disc but I also want the DPS output of Shadow, but basicly what I want to know is while leveling is it best to be a Disc/holy or Holy/disc healer or to be a Shadow Damage machine.

Any imput?

Priest Raid Class Spec Lead (Holy/Disc) Discussion

Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:26:05 -0800

Priestly healbots! Welcome to your Raiding Class / Spec thread!

I'm Naruth, admitted healing addict, and you lot get the dubious joy of reading all my ramblings and rants about healing in a raid environment as a priest â which is such a wonderful, frustrating experience.

I have a lot of information forthcoming for you... a lot. I've been plotting and gathering it for some time now, and am still working it into coherent format. For the moment, I'm letting you know that I'm here, and outlining some of the things you can expect from me.

Some of the topics I will touch on are:

- Flat stat recommendations for raiding, including:

Mana
Regen
+healing:
Health[/list:u]

- Talent Specs

- Gear

- Professions

- Stats Discussion

- Enchants

- Gems

- Spell rotations

- Macros

If anyone has any other general topics they'd like to bring into the discussion, or any questions at all, please feel free to post here, send me a PM, in-game mail, or poke me on any of my characters (Naruth, Aeorie, Vilyave, Whilst, Juliard, Jhunra... ahem!). I love healing, and further to that, I love healing as a priest. It's a fun, dynamic, and rewarding experience (albeit sometimes a cursing fit-inducing one ;D ), and I want to do anything I can do to help others enjoy it more and become better at it.

As the below topics are filled in, I'd love to see any dicussion or ideas anyone has. I've been at this healing business for a while, but I am by no means the end-all-be-all. I'm really looking forward to hearing what the rest of you think, adding your ideas to these topics, and learning about things you have found to work well in your own experience.

Priest Raid Class Spec Lead (Shadow) Discussion

Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:01:46 -0800

Greetings Shadow Priests!

Your RCSL is Denul, which is me. If you need to get ahold of me ingame, the alts I'm often around on are: Bendon, Logros, and Dromand.

So, please feel free to use this thread to discuss the spec, as it relates to raiding, or to ask and answer questions. As GI Joe wisely proclaimed throughout my youth - "Knowing is half the battle."

Table of Contents
1. Shadow Priest Basics
2. Talents
3. Gear choices
4. Profession Choices
5. Enchants + Gem Choices
6. Your Role in Karazhan
7. Your Role in Gruul's Lair
8. Mods + Macros
9. Links

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1. Shadow Priest Basics

I'm going to cover the basics before talents/gear for this guide, because a lot of the SP abilities are somewhat complicated, and your strategy will dictate your talent choices, rather than the other way around.

Essentially, a SP comes down to cast rotation and cooldown management. Once you've learned those, you'll be well on your way to mastering the art of melting faces in PvE. Also, just as fair warning now: Expect to go through Mana Potions every 2 minutes on every boss fight. A SP is a -very- mana-intensive casting class, and your primary obstacle for DPS will be keeping up mana.

Now, here's why Shadow Priests are among the most popular characters in the game - with VT going, 25% of your damage is returned as mana. 5% to each of your 5 group-mates (including yourself). Be sure to remind Druids of that when they're choosing who to Innervate

Your casting rotation is going to be heavily dependent on your gear level. In early stages (pre-T5), you're going to mostly be using a simple cast rotation for sustained DPS:
Vampiric Touch, Shadow Word Pain, Mind Flay, (Repeat Mind Flay until VT or SW need to be reapplied)

You're going to be interspersing Vampiric Embrace in there as well, keeping that up for most fights. During times when you need to burn through a certain phase quickly (such as Curator evocate or Prince Phase2), you'll add in Mind Blast and Shadow Word Death. Be very, very careful with Shadow Word Death. The reason for sticking with your DOTs and Mind Flay is simply mana efficiency. Using those three attack spells, you'll still go out of mana without using potions, but it won't be near-immediate.

Once your gear gets better, and you're able to do more damage, and thus keep your mana higher through VT, add in Mind Blast and the occasional SW to your cast rotation. Neither is terribly mana-efficient, but it'll up your damage. The trick is finding the ideal medium where you're low on mana at the end of a fight, and have kept DPS steady.

When looking at gear, you need to consider Spell Haste very carefully. Since most of your damage comes from DoTs which receive no benefit from Spell Haste, the primary advantage of Spell Haste comes from improving your Mind Flay cast time. However, unless other classes that spam one or two spells all the time, and thus receive a straight benefit from SH, you need to consider rotation. If spell haste doesn't reduce the cast time of your MF and Mind Blast enough that you can get an extra Flay into your rotation, then it's not really helping you - you're just going to be standing around waiting that half-second or second so you can re-apply VT or SWP. If using SH means you can get 3 Mind Flays into a rotation instead of 2, then it's a big help. That process is mostly trial-and-error, unfortunately.

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2. Talents

Shadow Priests are one of the few specs that get a considerable amount of leeway in their talent-point expenditures. As such, I'm going to suggest one spec, but provide talent-by-talent comments to help make the choice for your individual playstyle.

Suggested Raid Build: Link 20/0/41

This build is what I'd recommend for purely-raiding effectiveness. If you're going to be doing raiding + 5-mans + soloing, then you'll likely want to move a few points around, and most likely go with something more like this: Link.

Like I said, there's a lot of room for leeway.

Discipline

Tier 1:
Unbreakable Will: (5/5) Better than the alternative.
Wand Spec: (0/5) Worse than the alternative

Tier 2:
Silent Resolve: (0/5) Not useful to a SP
Imp PW:F: (2/2) +30% to an already-powerful buff is fantastic
Imp PW:S: (3/3) Frankly, not fantastic, but again, better than the alternatives
Martyrdom: (0/2) Useless in raiding

Tier 3:
Absolution: (0/3) Not worthwhile, you won't be using these often enough for their mana cost to significantly impact your performance
Inner Focus: (1/1) Fantastic talent. Used with Mind Blast most often, but I'll sometimes use it with Devouring Plague (since it's such a high-cost spell)
Meditation: (3/3) Mana is going to be your biggest enemy, and 30% of regen while casting is fantastic

Tier 4:
Imp Inner Fire: (0/3) Terrible talent.
Mental Agility: (5/5) If you're going this far into Disc, it's for this talent. A decent increase in your mana efficiency, helping mostly with SW, but also helping with PW:S, SW, and Devouring Plague (if you're Forsaken)
Imp Mana Burn: (0/2) Strictly PvP talent

Holy

Nothing here. Skip this whole tree as a SP.

Shadow

Tier 1:
Spirit Tap: (5/5) Fantastic talent, yes, for raiding. In many fights, there's a chance to finish off an add, and doing so will up your mana regen tremendously. SW is perfect for this. If you're outside of a raiding situation (5-man or soloing), this talent is invaluable.
Blackout: (0/5) In a raid, this talent isn't terribly useful. Most things are immune to stuns, and if they're not, odds are they're not really a big threat, and it's very unlikely you'll be attacking them.

Tier 2:
Shadow Affinity: (0/3) In a raid, you're not going to have aggro issues. If you're doing a lot of 5-mans, this talent is a must-have, or you'll never be able to use VE with a non-Paladin tank without pulling aggro like crazy.
Imp SW: (2/2) A staple spell, this increases it's usefulness by improving mana efficiency, and more important, not needing as many casts to keep the spell up (You'll always be juggling your global cooldown).
Shadow Focus: (5/5) Tailor this talent to your gear level. Remember that you need 16% +hit to be capped for bosses, and anything past that is not helping you.

Tier 3:
Improved Psychic Scream: (0/2) Crappy talent, but necessary to get Silence. In a raid, I wouldn't bother going down this tree, for the same reasons I don't like Blackout.
Improved Mind Blast: (5/5) Another staple spell, when something needs to die fast, MB is the best DPS spell you've got.
Mind Flay: (1/1) Dur.

Tier 4:
Improved Fade: (0/2) Garbage.
Shadow Reach: (2/2) This is a must-have. Mind-Flay has a terrible range, and anything to help that for raid encounters is a big help.
Shadow Weaving: (3/5) Feel free to take this up to 5/5, if you can. It won't matter much in the end, but it'll lead to maxing the stacks of it faster, which will help your damage by a very small amount, as well as that of warlocks using shadow.

Tier 5:
Silence: (0/1) If you've taken IPS, it's to get this talent. Great for 5-mans or soloing, but a poor raid choice.
Vampiric Embrace: (1/1) Dur.
Improved Vampiric Embrace: (2/2) Increases health % return from 15% to 25%. A very large bonus for only 2 talent points.
Focused Mind: (3/3) Improved mana efficiency? Yes please.

Tier 6:
Shadow Resilience: (0/2) Strictly PvP
Darkness: (5/5) Dur

Tier 7:
Shadowform: (1/1) Dur
Shadow Power: (0/5) This is a talent you might start to put points into as your gear level increases and you can afford to start casting MB and SWD, but for a starting SP, avoid it. Later in life, it can be a great talent.

Tier 8:
Misery: (5/5) Dur

Tier 9:
Vampiric Touch: (1/1) Durrrrr

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3. Gear Choices

Gear choices for a shadow priest are a bit more complicated than most classes face.

First, you have to consider +hit. Until you reach 16% +hit along with Shadow Focus, then that's your #1 priority.
Second, you want to go for +damage. +damage improves your damage as well as your mana-return, both of which are critical for a SP.
Third, you want mp5. Because you're going to be casting constantly, spirit gets you a smaller return for regen (even with 30% of it happening while casting thanks to Meditation.

After that, you want +spirit (10% of your Spirit in +damage from a priest with Imp Divine Spirit, as well as regen), spell haste (see Basics above), and +crit. Crit does very little for you, even at high gear levels. Typically, the valuation of damage to crit is between 1:6 and 1:9, depending on how much you're using MB and SWD (if you are at all!). +int helps a small amount by providing a larger initial mana pool.

Now, the tricky part is that most gear that has +damage has +crit (boo!) or +hit (which you quickly cap).

The good news is that three pieces of gear are a no-brainer for every shadow priest: the Frozen Shadoweave tailoring set. Simply put, every SP should be using that until they get better gear, which will take a very long time.

I've stolen the below list directly from Elitist Jerks, and agree with it 100%

Elitist Jerks Forum Wrote:Helm = [Spellstrike Hood]
Neck = [Natasha's Arcane Filament] or [Natasha's Ember Necklace] or [Vindicator's Pendant of Dominance]
Shoulders = [Frozen Shadoweave Shoulders]
Cloak = [Cloak of the Black Void] or [Cloak of Woven Energy]
Chest = [Frozen Shadoweave Robe]
Bracers = [Bracers of Havok] or [Vindicator's Dreadweave Cuffs]
Gloves = [Studious Wraps] if you're doing heroics. [Tempest's Touch] or [Jaedenfire Gloves of Annihilation] if not.
Belt = [Girdle of Ruination] or [Akama's Sash]
Leggings = [Spellstrike Pants]
Boots = [Frozen Shadoweave Boots]
Rings = [Signet of the Violet Tower], [Seal of the Exorcist], [Seer's Signet], [Evoker's Mark of the Redemption], [Manastorm Band], [Cobalt Band of Tyrigosa], [Khorium Band of Shadows]
Trinkets = [Darkmoon Card: Crusade] and [Icon of the Silver Crescent], although [Mark of Defiance] or [Item 'get in-game item linkquagmirran's eye' not found!] also works until you get those.
Weapons = [Gavel of Unearthed Secrets] or a blue dagger/mace with +120ish damage
Offhand = [Orb of the Soul-Eater] (or [Tome of Shadow Force] until then)
Wand = [Carved Witch Doctor's Stick] is the best wand in game for a shadow priest. [Wand of the Netherwing], [Illidari Rod of Discipline] (requires an epic flying mount), or a wand of Shadow Wrath also work pre-heroics.

For a by-slot guide to the best gear available, check here for a 2.4 guide to the best gear available per slot. You might be surprised by how much of that is available to a Kara-level raider.

Some values taken from the link above for gear stat-weights are provided here:

Quote:5.57 crit rating = 1 dmg (with SW in rotation)
* 1 haste = 1 dmg (presuming ~1400 dmg)
* 10 spirit = 1.1 dmg (1 dmg without kings with imp DS)
* 80 int = 1 crit% = ~4.36 dmg (3.97 dmg without kings)
* 1 hit = 1.364 dmg (when not hit-capped)

Keep in mind 10 spirit only gives damage if someone in your raid has Imp Divine Spirit, and that the crit rating there is assuming you're using SW as often as possible. It's also not factoring in mana-efficiency, so you may need to make sacrifices to damage output in order to sustain mana.

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4. Profession Choices

Profession #1: Tailoring

If you don't have tailoring as a SP, at least to start, then I question your ability to make rational choices. The Frozen Shadoweave set is simply fantastic, and won't be replaced until ZA/t5 gear (and even then, it's competitive). It's also something you can get right at 70, with preparation, and is reasonably inexpensive. There's a variety of other good tailoring items available as well: [item]Belt of Blasting[/item], [item]Girdle of Ruination[/item], [item]Spellstrike Hood[/item], [item]Spellstrike Pants[/item], [item]Battlecast Hood[/item], [item]Battlecast Pants[/item], and [item]Mantle of Nimble Thought[/item]. Spellstrike hood/pants are the most likely to be obtainable to a relatively new 70 SP, but take a look at the other items as well.

Profession #2a: Alchemy

I'm fond of alchemy for three reasons:
1) [item]Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone[/item] (Link)
2) [item]Mad Alchemist's Potion[/item] (Link)
3) [item]Flask of Pure Death[/item] (Link)

Having Alchemy will make getting the Flasks cheaper if you're elixir spec, and the Stone and potions are only usable if you're an alchemist. Note that going this route means you'll have to buy your herbs.

Profession #2b: Engineering

Engineering is fantastic for the [item]Destruction Holo-Gogs[/item] (Link). You also get bombs, a transporter, a zap-throttle mote extractor, and various fun gizmos.

Profession #2c: Jewelcrafting

To be honest, not really a good option. Prior to 2.4, the epic gems were special, but now gems that are nearly comparable will be fairly common. None of the trinkets available are particularly impressive, although [item]Figurine - Seaspray Albatross[/item] (Link) isn't too bad. There's far better available though.

Profession #2d: Enchanting

Meh. Very, very meh. I can't in good conscience recommend this, since other people will have the enchants you want to have done, and there's no particular advantage to having Enchanting yourself. The ring enchants are minor, and the cost to get to them is extremely high. Just remember to generously tip those who do have enchanting

Profession #2e: Gathering

If you want a source of income, herbalism and mining are useful. Personally, I don't take gathering professions because I prefer to max out my effectiveness, and the epic gear available from professions helps me do that. It's certainly not required though.

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5. Enchants + Gem Choices

Enchant Choices:

Back: Greater Shadow Resistance (+15 SR), Subtlety (-2% threat)
Chest: Restore Mana Prime (+6mp5), Exceptional Stats (+6 all), Major Spirit (+15)
Feet: Vitality (+4 mp5, +4 hp5)
Gloves: Major Spellpower (+20 spell damage)
Head: Glyph of Power (+22 sdmg, +14 spell hit)
Legs: Runic Spellthread (+35 sdmg, +20 stam), Mystic Spellthread (+25 spdmg, +15 stam)
Main Hand: Soulfrost (+54 shadow damage), Major Spellpower (+40 spdamage), Spellsurge (Restore mana to group)
Shoulder: Aldor/Scryer enchant token
Wrist: Restore Mana Prime (+6mp5)

A few comments about my choices. Shadow Resist is simply most useful in raids, and there's no caster-centric enchant available. In a raid, you should almost never be threat-capped, so Subtlety isn't as useful. For chest enchants, any of the three work well - after a certain point in gear, +15 spirit will give you more than +6mp5. Weapon enchant is mostly up to your budget (Soulfrost or MS), or whether you want to be more group-buff focused and using Spellsurge. For the wrist enchant, you can get Spellpower (+15 sdamage), but it's 6 lps, 6 primal fire, and 6 primal water, and I can't recommend someone dump that kind of money on +15 sdamage, when +6mp5 is dirt cheap and very comparable.

Gem Choices:

First, I want to mention gemming for +spell hit. As a spriest, it's very viable to do. To max you +sphit, you need 16% between talents and gear. We can use talent points for 10% hit, leaving only 6% for gear (76 Spell Hit), which is relatively easy to get. Past this cap (which should be your absolute first gearing priority), you can choose to exceed the cap and remove points from Shadow Focus, or you can just hit cap, and gear for +spdamage.

Player Craftable:
Blue: [item]Glowing Nightseye[/item]
Red: [item]Runed Living Ruby[/item], [item]Reckless Noble Topaz[/item], [item]Veiled Noble Topaz[/item]
Yellow: [item]Reckless Noble Topaz[/item], [item]Veiled Noble Topaz[/item], [item]Great Dawnstone[/item]

Heroic Gems:
Blue: [item]Fluorescent Tanzanite[/item] (Blood Furnace), [item]Glowing Tanzanite[/item] (Black Morass), [item]Lambent Chrysoprase[/item] (Underbog)
Red: [item]Shining Fire Opal[/item] (Mechanar)
Yellow: [item]Shining Fire Opal[/item] (Mechanar)

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6. Your Role In Karazhan

You're a fantastic addition to any Kara raid - a well geared shadow priest can compete for top damage, and provide a tremendous group-benefit and buffs at the same time. Beyond standard buffs (Fort, SProt), you can be used to shackle undead targets with Shackle Undead and Fear Ward the tanks for Attumen trash and Nightbane. Never underestimate the utility of those two spells in Kara, they'll be raid-savers. Also remember that a paladin tank rarely minds a PW:S, so throw that around when damage is going to be high.

The biggest hurdle you'll have here is that there's a lot of AoE fights, and you'll quickly go OOM trying to DoT all the targets available, and your DoTs won't get to do a lot of damage anyways. It's often best to VT and blast a single target, providing mana for your group, allowing those with better AoE abilities to nuke the enemy. Once you get enough +spell damage, DoTing up a bunch of targets can be effective, but keep an eye out for threat.

For many fights, there'll only be a few targets to cast on. Make sure to keep DoTs up on all targets, as long as your tanks can handle the multi-tanking. Remember that you can only have VE up on one target, so pick one that you'll be focusing on with Mind Flay/MB/SWD. And remember that VE increases your threat by a ton, so don't get yourself killed.

Attumen: Shackle trash as directed.
Moroes: Shackle one of the adds, keep DoTs up on active targets.
Maiden: Keep up DoTs and VE, as the healing here will help a lot. Use Dispel Magic to remove holy fires from raid members.
Opera: Standard DPS here. If it's Oz, try to keep DoTs up on all active targets.
Curator: You'll mostly DPS curator, but try to help out with adds when you can.
Shade of Aran: DPS, don't get yourself killed.
Terestian: DPS. Be very careful with aggro here if you're using VE, since you could easily pull imps en-masse off the imp-tank.
Netherspite: You're a fantastic candidate for the blue beam if you don't have two warlocks. Just don't SWeath
Nightbane: Fear Ward the tank, and conserve mana, as this is a very long fight.
Prince: Be very careful about using Mind Flay, as it's range is shorter than that of Shadow Nova. Careful using SW, as you'll kill yourself if he Enfeebles you. Keep PW:S up on the tank during P2, as most wipes will occur then from the tank taking too much damage from a flurry.

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7. Your Role in Gruul's Lair

Pewpew dps. You won't have any special tasks here, other than providing healers with lots of mana. During Gruul, you may be placed with healers to ensure they're in range of your VE and VT. Be VERY careful not to blow them up. Try to get Innervates from druids for Gruul, as it's a long fight, and you can keep up healer mana effectively as long as your mana stays high.

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8. Mods + Macros

Other than standard raid mods, there's not a lot of mods that will make a big difference for a Shadow Priest. Something to tell you when a target is affected by a magical debuff is required, so you can Dispel Magic.

Clique is very useful for click-casting (I use it for buffs, and use keyboard binds for offensive spells).

Quartz is handy for showing cast-times and the GCD, which you'll be monitoring very closely to keep your attack rotation going smoothly.

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9. Links

Elitist Jerks Shadow Priest Guide

Priest Macro's

Mon, 07 Jan 2008 08:32:43 -0800

Since I dont use mods or anything of the sorts I was wondering if anyone has any handy Priest healing macro's to make healing a tad bit easier than my typical "target & click" healing.

Thanks!

Priestly mods

Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:46:46 -0700

I've been playing a priestess for the last few weeks now, and have just picked up on mod so far for her. Clique...love it...but what other very helpful or cant live without mods should I be trying?

Thanks

Patch changes - 2.1.2

Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:28:02 -0700

Priests
- Feedback: This buff can now proc when the Priest is sitting.
- Shadowfiend: This creature will now reset to full health when it is
summoned. It will also automatically attack your current enemy target
when it is summoned.
- Surge of Light: The buff from Surge of Light will no longer prevent
Inner Focus's charge from being consumed. In addition, it is no
longer possible to get two free Smites when this ability procs.
- Touch of Weakness: This spell can now trigger Surge of Light when it
does critical strikes.

Priestly Prayers

Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:24:11 -0800

Same thing with the Druid's Grove, but for Priests! Post your strategies/talent builds/whathaveyou in here!

I hope I'm not blind and just missing a previous discussion thread -_-

Priest talents - present and future

Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:32:40 -0700

Hey gang, I was just playing with the talent preview and figuring out what I would or wouldn't use if it went live as is.

Here's a raiding healer spec I came up with, thinking that neither of the Disc/Holy 41pt talents are to me worth giving up some of the treats available in the other.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

I will say though that I do like Pain Suppression and Circle of Renewal, but the trees suffer slightly in the way some class trees used to in the past - you have to take talents that don't dovetail into the main thrust of your intention with the build in order to get to them. Disc is a bit of a hodgepodge - if I'm building to raid heal I don't want to have to take talents boosting Inner Fire, that work when I get critically hit, upping my offensive spells, etc. (Edit: Pain Suppression is self only so I'm not really into it anymore, nice for surviving aggro but meh.)

My most likely build will be more like:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 1121051551

With Improved Vampiric Embrace, Power Word: Shield which being Disc is castable in Shadowform, and the new Shadow Heal I expect to be an even more solid backup healer in small group content /while in Shadowform the whole time/. I still of course will be more than competent as a primary healer outside of Shadowform. Improved Shadow Weaving just makes having at least one Shadowpriest on a raid that much more useful and justifiable, too.

My current spec, for comparison, is very similar to the above just sans new talents of course:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 1120051000

I switched from Blackout to Spirit Tap in the "future" spec because I'll be levelling again and adventuring in the outside world, so the mana regeneration will be desirable. Right now I don't farm much and just grab a mage and squeeze it beforehand if I do.

Anyone else want to share observations, current or future specs, or comment?

Shillatae
Witch Doctor of the Ironsong Tribe