Krell Wrote:Glad this is being discussed, and in a positive way. However, I would just like to say that we may all have different ideas of what "conflict RP" might mean. To some, it might be simple disagreements while to others it may include any conflict up to combat. I think it will be VERY important for everyone involved to realize that IC actions carry IC consequences.
For example, if Krell were to escalate a simple argument with say, Lucinther, where Krell begins beating him senseless and refuses to stop or apologize for his IC actions, Krell should expect punishment which may include being banished (guild kick) from the Tribe. Personally, I have a problem with people who use RP as a license to do anything they want regardless of how it affects others. If someone was consistently argumentative and combative there would be no redeeming reason for the Tribe to keep them. Balance is the key.
I look forward to some excitement come Cata.
Is Krell going to battle Sreng for the title of warlord again?
How long has it been since
that idea was brought up? :lol:
I think the grounds for a heated debate sounds great! However, I also agree that we should be very aware of how personally others might view our comments/actions. If anyone thinks the conversation/conflict is getting out of hand, or too agitated, I believe that that person has the right to say "((Hey guys this is too much))" or "((Dudes, yer in so deep that yer drowning))" or whatever. And then the dudes in the conflict can say "((Chill out dude, this is a friendly fight. We're both cool!))" And then the other guy says "((Oh...I thought you were fer real!))"
I personally intend to bring a goblin into the scene at the start of Cata. (Actually hopin' to introduce him prior to Cata.) Since he's a goblin engineer, I'll be playing him as a little bit of a nut job. As far as goblin personalities go, I'd assume that you'd have a few options: The crazy engineer, The obsessive entrepeneur,...ummm. Seems like that despite their intensity towards their professions, Goblins know how to keep their cool. They can face a hard bargain and pound their competitors down to a pulp, without breaking a sweat. They know how to have a good time and that's their ultimate goal. There are different factions of goblins, and the goblins that we know of are less willing to "dirty their hands" by taking up the fight - they want to remain as neutral as possible, otherwise they'd be cutting their profits in half. The faction of goblins that will be available to us, were probably quite happy, until Deathwing messed everything up. They've been forced from their home, so they're ready to take action. -At least that's the impression that I've gotten so far.
I had a long chat with 3-5 folks last night while we cleared MC, and we had lots of off-the wall, but potentially useful ideas.
The main problem we wanted to solve was to prevent / stop truly horrible physical conflict RP, but encourage heated discussion. We also felt it was *very* important to preserve tribal unity above all else, allowing even people playing shy characters to act in a way as a player to stop a fight without the abrupt /ooc stick.
So, we brainstormed some ideas for an IN game tribe method to stop violence - that anyone can use, much like the "OOC stick" that gets used in /gu (usually humorously).
The idea was simple - a tribal totem, guardian, loa, or other protective spirit.
Quite simply: Why doesn't orc-level angry Phoronid plug undead-levle angry Lucinther in the head with an arrow when he gets really mad? (or vice versa) It would be stopped by the tribal spirit and they would be reminded of the importance of the tribe itself over their tempers.
Why did this argument suddenly stop? We annoyed the tribal spirit. (As shown in RP by *any* member who wanted the argument to stop, giving them a fun RP way to do it.)
Also, could be fun with flat out RP even in non-conflict situations. ("I made a potroast for the tribal totem... does this type of totem eat pot roast?")
I, on purpose, did not give examples of a type of guardian, since that in and of itself could be made into a major IST RP event / vote / discovery.
I know it is kind of a crazy idea - thoughts?
- Phoronid: Full of crazy (ideas)
I would like to point out something that has been mentioned here all ready. In Character consequences for ones actions. The mere act of attacking a guild mate over any level of conflict should warrant serious consequences. Granted the idea of a spiritual guardian over the tribe is a creative one that allows anyone to express their desire for peace, it does not stop one player from attacking another physically...the act is performed before this guardian could act.
Just thought I would point that out.
I actually really like the Guardian idea. That could be a major RP event, possibly even related to the Cataclysm. Given how much elemental chaos will be going on, the guardian could be a brand new spirit that was released from the depths of Durotar, or something like that. Even if the discovery is completely out of control IC, I do also like the idea of having an OOC vote.
True and a fair comment, Eru. (and thanks for the vote of confidence, Waka!)
In my thought process, this just seems like a nice way to (continue to) allow crazy, violent personality character concepts into the tribe, since we know that the children, non-combat characters, and our "items' are safe via guardian-ship.
It also would allow characters to threaten each other in vague (re: creative and descriptive) ways and then still be forced take a potentially horribly disruptive physical dual "off screen" to a crafted and fun forum story - since it can't happen in the guild hall.
To be blunt, "consequences" for RP actions taken have been ignored as long as I have been in the tribe, up to and including storylines of joining a known enemy's ranks, injuring tribemates, faction betrayal, being a known spy for an evil force, and poisoning each other. We have tended to simply let the RP actions drop, since nobody can give a consequence without either complex mutually agreed RP, uncomfortable descriptions (nobody wants to read a detailed physical punishment scene...really), or the player/character issues surrounding a /gkick. We also have never in my time used any rank status to show punishment (which could be cool!).
Since I like the players and the characters here, it would also be nice to involve more people in the RP, even if they are uncomfortable as their character in the situation they can RP "observing" the conflict as a spirit / spirit representative.
Just some brainstormed thoughts for a crazy idea.
- Phoro.
The one big IC conflict that we had, back in the early TBC days, was when The Earthshaker Clan split off from IST out of protest over the entry of Blood Elves into the Horde. We actually created another guild and those members who didn't trust the Blood Elves split off into it.
Eventually, of course, the Blood Elves earned our trust, and the Earthshaker Clan rejoined the Tribe... but it did make for some stimulating RP.
So there's a pretty big IC consequence that we did. And it was fun!
That sounds really neat!
*contemplates using guild tags to show political alignment for Cata...*
Oryx Wrote:The one big IC conflict that we had, back in the early TBC days, was when The Earthshaker Clan split off from IST out of protest over the entry of Blood Elves into the Horde. We actually created another guild and those members who didn't trust the Blood Elves split off into it.
Eventually, of course, the Blood Elves earned our trust, and the Earthshaker Clan rejoined the Tribe... but it did make for some stimulating RP.
So there's a pretty big IC consequence that we did. And it was fun!
This is also the same thing they did when Death Knights joined the tribe.
So, can we expect the Earthshaker Clan to take leave cause the Goblins are joining force with the Horde? Just seems like a reoccurring theme, not that I'm complaining. It's more of a joke on my end.
I like the guardian idea, and there is certainly and event that could go around that. It could be a troll Loa related to the new druids or a sun-based guardian of the Earth Mother in response to Tauren priests and paladins. The Orcs could refer to it as ancestral spirits. The Blood Elves could call it the Grace of the Sunwell. The Forsaken could refer to this force as their testimony to Sylvanas and the Horde after Putress turned his back on them. The Goblins could...well, I'm not quite sure what Goblins believe yet. Maybe they could think the God of Profit would frown upon them or something.
Just a few ideas.
I had some good discussion off-forum regarding the totem spirit idea (outlined above by me), so I wanted to share the negatives, for sake of a fair discussion and fair commentary.
1. Temptation to "god mode" the spirit
2. Assumption that someone else would "god mode" the spirit and therefore not bothering to do conflict RP.
3. Possible perceived insult , as it may be seen to treat us like we cannot handle ourselves as adults.
So, while I still support this as an RP event / excuse to roleplay something more then ourselves when works for plot, perhaps the "godmode" idea needs heavy work. Another idea is to simply clearly re-state the way to RP conflict within the guild guidelines (and give clear consequences for RPing outside the guidelines - from RP demotion to temporary/ longer term /gkick)
I would also like to work on a system to show that the players are happy in a character conflict, via /ISTooc, etc...
Thanks!
- Phoro.
I took it upon myself to make a possible basis for a guild spirit. I went out to Quel'thalas and ran into Kardwel. I introtuced myself as a spirit (taking the form of Anca, then a blood elf, a human, and finally a dwarf).
If we needed a good reason for why a spirit would join us in the Hall, it could be because that area of land will apparently not be accessable (destroyed in the Cataclysm?) and the spirit needs a new home.
Just a thought.
To note, the Earthshaker Clan thing only happened for Wrath, regarding the Death Knights' induction into the Horde. It was through a previously unknown kinship between Kretol and Kuskuh that caused initial trepidation (during the moot) and a subsequent acknowledgement of sorts that led to the Clan rejoining, among a few other things.
I'll be honest when I say I am also rather apprehensive of anything that can lead to any more god-moding or 'OPness' or the like. As it is, I've seen enough 'bad premonitions' and such from people trying to take a spotlight of sorts and predict the Cataclysm. I can understand shaman noticing the elements 'resisting' (as it even states that in the upcoming book,
The Shattering), but... well, I suppose we can see how we can work things out as far as planning RP leading up to the big event.
I don't think that "bad premonitions" are a bad thing to rp out, provided that they're kept at the level of "*something* and I have no idea what". But eh, that may just be because I used it as a way to explain why Ura and Oga were not involved in the fall of the Lich King.
However, their position is and always has been Ura knowing *something* is up but being totally ineffective at expressing anything she is feeling and a shaman with pretty much zero experience trying to figure out what it is her friend is trying to tell her about. Either way both are very much ignorant and cannot fathom the scale of the destruction coming.
I agree that "bad premonitions" should definitely not be used. From what I've seen of beta cata vids, NO ONE was aware of the emergence of Deathwing. Think of Cataclysm as 2012. Obviously cata is more definite, but the people in the world don't know that. In one of the moots, Mula made a reference to a premonition made long ago, and she did it with much skepticism.
The only reason why I've gone into the Alliance vs. Horde changes on the Squigvicious storyline is because those are changes that are occurring because of the actions of the members of the factions. In my opinion, that is something that can be rp'd.
Kretol Wrote:As it is, I've seen enough 'bad premonitions' and such from people trying to take a spotlight of sorts and predict the Cataclysm. I can understand shaman ...
Yeah, I had my shaman doing some confused spirit based RP, but even that felt a bit too OOG, so I stopped.
I agree that some of the "other" changes have been fun to RP, including the new class/race combos as we learn where they come from in canon
- P.