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Why was I kicked from the guild?
Sreng told me that I was kicked from the guild becuase people send complaints about me from last night. Anyone of those people who sent complaints, please reply to me saying what you said and why you said it.

Last night, I said many mean things in GC. But, I never ment them. It was all in OOC. When I use the (()), that means I'm serious and in OOC. Why would I speak OOC in GC? It makes no sense. Also, the things I said were definatly not offensive, I only said things such has "Undead are rotten". It is only apart of my Character's personality. He is a Troll, he is supposed to be Voodo like, more evil like. Why is it so wrong?

I always acted like this, ask Zema. She said she thought it was funny, and that no one should take it serious. Umu always RPs with me, and so does Ebberk. Alot of people do.

I understand that I should've warned everyone that I was just RPing or something, becuase my Character does seem serious at times. But, I don't say it's something to kick a guild member over! Maybe I can change my personality? Or just warn everyone before I RP with them? I never said, or did anything wrong. If there is something that I did wrong, please aware me now. I don't see why I can just get a warning to be sure to always warn people before I RP with them. I really don't think it is that serious of a deal.

Also, when I RP'ed , the people who complained never said anything, they did say some stuff in GC, but I thought it was just RP. I don't understand, if some had a problem, why didn't they PST me? They could've talked to me, instead they just complained and didn't even tell me anything. I do not think that is fair. I never was mean, or rude. It was just roleplay! If their is someone who thinks that their is anything that I did wrong, please tell me what I did.

What ever I did, I apologize, I don't even know what I did besides that. I'm thinking there is something else that I did wrong, becuase what I did wrong sure seems like it's not really this serious. I apologize if there was something I did wrong, and all I really ask for is a second chance.
I deleted the poll in this post; I do not feel a poll is the appropriate means to discuss possibly overriding a decision of Sreng's. That's just not the way we do things around here. I'm not sure this is really a matter best discussed publicly in any case, but I'm not going to lock the thread.

Okay, I understand.
Perhaps this is just a case of a misunderstanding and some extreme RP? I can understand someone taking thier RP to an extreme, especially in a good RP guild like Ironsong. And if other folks had no warning then perhaps there were some upset feelings caused which lead to the descision to have a guild member removed.

While I was not one of the people that appearantly were offended I would not have a problem with giving him another chance, I think everyone deserves another chance.
Etsuko - Monk
Razzlixx Blingwell - Warlock
Cloudjumper Wildmane - Druid (Inactive)
Should I, or shouldn't I.....I should, i think, add my two cents here.

First off, No, i was NOT one of the individuals to mail a complaint, but i can understand why those people chose to do so.

There were so who went along with your RP style, enjoying it or not, there were some who tried to ignore it, and there were some whom it just bothered SO much that they didn't know what else to do.

Gaj, you have to know that it's not a single event that caused this. This has been coming, i believe, since you decided to make Gajit your main. More and more, over the past few weeks, whenever I've seen you on, your RPing always ends up in an RP argument. Are you RPing Gajit to be abrasive, or somewhat of a jerk? That's how it comes across.

IF that is Gajit's personality, i might suggest you look to Damoxian as an example of how to balance everything. Damo's the residen't 'hardass', and taken in doses, it's a fun personality to RP around. But a constant barrage of arguing and provocation loses it's appeal quite quickly.

There were times when i seriously considered turning off the guild channel just because i didn't want to see it, or even put you on ignore, but i did neither -- i had a feeling things would come to a head eventually.

In my opinion, the thing that stood out the most was using the language function to say things about other (even if in RP) avatars that only the troll avatars could understand. Again, I would point you to Haida as an example of where the balance is. Granted, i don't KNOW what Haida says in Taurae, but i certainly don't think he was using it to say things that shouldn't be said, even under the auspices of RPing.

Again, this isn't the first time, and a lot of us know it. I believe there was something about being pulled aside to be talked to by someone during a raid, because of some disruption, but i wasn't there, so that's just hearsay on my part.

Now, we also know that it's not really a respectful thing to try and tell others how they should RP, so that may be one reason why you never received any tells about how people were perceiving your RPing -- so complaints were made. Ultimately it IS up to Sreng, as our leader, to decide what to do about complaints from multiple guild members ABOUT a single member.

Maybe you don't belong (there have been others in the past who just didn't fit), or maybe you deserve another chance. That is up to Sreng, or up to an officer vote, or maybe even the will of the guild, to decide.

I WOULD, however, humbly suggest, that if you were to be given another chance, that you reconsider, if not Gajit's personality, then at least how you apply that to how he RPs in any given situation.

In closing, the game is about having fun. I poKhrale, working in customer-service/retail when i'm not writing or playing, don't want to log on and have to endure the same sort of hostility/aggravation i experience almost daily at work. Even secondhand. That's not fun.

Good luck to you.
I'm really not sure I should post on this, but I would like to attempt to respectfully add my two coppers.

I am not one of the people who sent a complaint. It was something I had planned to do, though.

I believe you are a good guy at heart who simply may not be a good fit for this guild. I saw many disruptive behaviors. Some (not all) of these hid behind the tag of "RP." Now, I'm not a hard core RP'er like some in this guild, but I understand it is a dicey thing telling someone how to play their character's personality. However, I firmly believe that all behaviors are not ok simply because you're are rp'ing. And, if you must switch to Troll for your insults, that's a clue to me you don't think it's ok either. If you are worried about what you are going to say, why say it?

I do wish you the best of luck, and I hope you don't take what I say as a personal attack. I really don't mean it that way. I get the feeling that you are a sweet person inside, but I also feel that the outbursts in guild (rp and non-rp) caused some friction that didn't need to happen.
((for the record Gajit I never really minded it when you bugged Zamba since it shows that Zamba is unhostile to a flaw. I also see how people could be offended by it. If you were to return to the guild (under Sreng's orders of course) I would advise you to maybe tone it down and also like you said before let everyone know that you are RPing and to let them know that if they don't like it all they have to do is let you know and you will keep them out of it. for the people that find it annoying to even listen to the arguement Im not sure how to solve that...A "Gajitsin make fun of you" channel lol))
Okay, I understand that some of the guild members are taking it offensive, some are taking it realy offensive. If it is such a hastle, or problem, then I don't mind toneing my Character's personality down a bit, or if it is way to offensive to you guys, then I can even change the personality completely.

The guild was made for RP. So, for those who took it offensive, one said he hates logging on to see RP aguments, well it's not an argument, it is just roleplay. Which RP is sorta of the main idea of the guild, that is why I don't understand why people hate it.

It is not like the Character is who I am. I apologize, becuase I never knew someone would think of it has offensive. And, I am willing to change my RP personality if nessesary. Really, it just doesn't bother me, but that is only my opinion.
Gajitsin, I did not see what you said that flared the guild up that night. And the ones who seemed really pissed are also the ones that tend to bottle it up. I got annoyed by the Tribe that night as they all seemed to recklessly gang up on you.

Now, perhaps you did something to provoke it, but from what I saw, most of the tribe was egging you on with insults in return. And for this you get kicked? I ended up logging off that night annoyed at the entire action of the Tribe and how it may me feel and react. I'm sorry, but as a person I tend to absorbe emotions, thoughts, images, and words like a sponge. If the guild is angry, I become angry but not for the same reasons. I ended up having to log off just to not deal with it anymore.

That is what I see as a problem.

In so, I do not think it was right for people to whine and complain that someone doesn't work with them, and therefore they should be kicked from the guild. What should happen is a more mature approach, where something is worked out without excessive emotional ties. That is where the guild failed, and I do not want to see this happen again.

For those who complained, tell me, did you complain or egg Gajitsin on? Did you send him a tell saying you did not agree with what he was doing? I know Zarraema got irked and told him so on TS. Sure, she sounded pissed and I don't ever want that wrath brought on me, but at least she came out and told him, to which I heard him apologize. But to end like this is a sour note for the guild as a whole. I am dissapointed the Tribe would focus on singling out someone rather than suggesting opporunities like Krahle has above.

And on that note, Haida never uses Taurahe to "hide" what he's saying. He uses it to discuss things he feels only other Tauren should know. He also uses it on accident when I as a player forgets to toggle it off. >_<

So my advice, Gajitsin, is to keep your character's temper simmered down. Observe how Damoxian plays. He's an ass, to be sure, but he plays his character on that fine line. I would wager that everyone loves Damoxian, even though he does treat everyone poorly or with disregard. So too must you learn to walk this line, you can be a jerk but you have to find some way your character is accepted. Or you could look at Velamora, she's not mean, she's just an outcast. And that character is played again on that fine line. We are not supposed to truley hate each other, and some of the things said can seem offensive to someone unawares. What needs to happen is your Gajitsin needs to grow on us, he needs to be understood as a jerk, yet still appreciated by the Tribe. If you see that everyone is agitated by what you said, it might be time to (( OOC apologize )) to the Tribe and let everyone know what you were trying to get at. Perhaps with help from the Tribe we can steer your RP style into one that works for you, and for all of us.
< ooc >

I for one, hate to see drama unfold in the Guild.

As I can agree with most of the points posted above (on some level or another) I am not gonna sit and regurgitate what everyone else has said.

I am however, going to post a situation that came to my mind.

We are the Ironsong Tribe. We are a group of people who have banded together (as a family) to help each other out, and to get to know one another.

We are a RolePlay Guild. And, we are a fun Guild, with many mature members who enjoy poking a little fun at one another.

But what we must remember, is there is a line that can be crossed.

I would like to offer an example on a real life level.

Let's say you are in High School (or college, or working at a job) and someone there is consistently picking on others. Would that person be well liked? Probably not. Might that person be fired? Possibly.

For people to assume that others will just let any behavior go because that person is RPing is a bit naive.

Honestly Gajitsin, I don't know you very well. I don't believe Krell has ever hunted with you, so I have very little knowledge of your character or the player. I did however go back and read your characters history, and maybe I missed it, but there was nothing in there that said you were an angry Troll.

Well, this has gone on much longer than I had imagined....

Orc Hunter
Gajitsin, you were removed from the guild because of your behavior. I received four complaints from Tribemates, three in letter form. Here is a list of the grievances against you:

You were openly rude and abusive to people in guildchat. You asked for help on a quest that was apparently too high level for you to do in the first place (Swamp of Sorrows stuff) and were rude to Tribe members when they did not jump to your aid.

You have been hostile toward guild members, switching language so to publicly insult them without their knowledge.

This is a transcript from a conversation I had with one guild member:

"I had to intervene last night since no officers were online. He keeps instigating in-fighting in GC. I don't know if he considers it RP or not but it is becoming annoying. I let it go for awhile when things seemed light but once things started to get heated I announced... I am putting an end to the chat and asked players to stop. Everyone complied and all was fine. Several players whispered me thanking me and saying they agree and that Gaj is doing this stuff a lot. He chats incessantly about every detail of whatever he is doing as well. Folks are getting concerned. I just wanted to advise you on it."

You have tried to undermine my authority by posting a poll on this forum asking tribe members to vote on whether or not you should be reinstated. You will not be reinstated. You are not good for this Tribe. Goodbye.
I think the Warlord has spoken. Any further discussion on this subject should really probably be privately handled in-game if it is needed, so I'm locking the thread. Thanks all for handling this matter sensitively in the posts made.

Also, for those who seem confused or to be assuming the worst of Tribemates and Officers and Sreng, Gajitsin /was/ talked to about issues surrounding this multiple times by multiple officers and either didn't understand any of them or didn't think it was important. It wasn't sudden or unilateral just because he says it was. Like some folks have said, one doesn't always have the full picture.


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