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The Barracks
#1
/ooc

I am starting this thread to promote discussion on warrior talent builds and techniques.

To start things off I will by saying; it seems like the warriors in our raids could do considerably more damage during trash pulls. Due to the large numbers of warriors in our guild, we often make up a large percentage of the raid. So the damage output of each warrior is very important. Most of the time "extra" warriors are taking rogue slots, and rogues easily do a huge amount of damage.

Now that I have described my percieved problem, I shall try and come up with some solutions and/or guidance.

First a disclaimer; I am at the moment an arms warrior.

For all of you warriors who raid with us, but still want to destroy things in PvP. I will give you my strategy on dealing damage in raids.

I work better in describing situations then straight strategy, so lets say we are fighting a pair of those molten destroyers.

You should pretty much give up on charging, somehow these things always put you in combat before the attack is called. ((On firelords and surgers it is not the case.)) So when the MT ((usually Kosath)) pops bloodrage, you should do the same. You should also already be in berzerker stance. Once the pull is started and the mobs are in place, run behind the mobs. ((This will prevent them from blocking or parying.)) Now since these mobs do AOE damage you should pop Berzerker rage to get some rage from the damage.
Once the attack is called start off with an MS and hit whirlwind whenever MS is on cooldown and you happen to have enough rage. Pay attention to when the mob dodges, stance dance and hit overpower, get back into Berzerker stance. If for some reason you have a huge amount of rage try and hit Heroic Strike or Cleave before you stance dance to limit the loss of rage. ((The scrolling combat text is helpfull for knowing when large mobs have dodged.))

For most encounters you can use this same technique. Of course charging is always better than starting out with Blood Rage. This gives you even more rage when you use Blood Rage after your initial charging rage has run out. I usually get one MS off before switching to Berzerker stance.

Some things to remember with certain mobs:
Core hounds;
These guys have a hefty AOE and whirlwind will not hit them at max melee range. So if you are going to use Whirlwind you need to run in and pop it, then run back out very fast.

Fire lords;
Fire lords are chargable, be sure to switch to the spawns as fast as possible, Use your AOE attacks often.

Annahilators/surgers;
Just have to chase them all over the place. You can charge these too.


I hope this starts some good discussion.

Hopefully I can get Umu to post a similar guide to how a Fury spec warrior does the same thing.
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#2
Fury warriors approach damage dealing in raids in close to the same method that Arms warriors will insofar as when to attack a mob, and where. Attacking from behind is always the best way to go in general (just watch Corehound butt attacks.)

The major difference is that a Fury warrior will have the advtantage of faster weapons which will land hits and deal damage more consistantly and constantly, which leads to much faster Rage generation than a 2H Arms warrior can generally produce. Where an Arms warrior has to rely on landing big hits, using instants (MS and Whirlwind as Dai mentioned) and getting burst crits, Fury warriors can run in and start swinging away, using Heroic Strike (as faster mainhand weapons allow this to be spammed quite easily,) Overpower (if in Battle Stance), Whirlwind, Bloodthirst and, in the event of closely grouped, multiple mobs, Cleave.

The Importance of Cleave to a Fury warrior shouldn't be overstated either. It's easily the best ability for a Fury warrior to hold aggro on multiple mobs, so is worth a warrior's while to improve it with talents.

As far a builds go, probably the best DPS Fury build, which would also be deadly in PvP, would be: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LMGxdhbZVVuV0xoVo">http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LMGxdhbZVVuV0xoVo</a><!-- m -->

Unfortunately, because of a warrior's almost absolute reliance on Tactical Mastery, a Fury / Prot build is difficult to pull off, especially if you want to PvP where stance dancing is crucial, and can make PvE tanking a pain. If you have the patience to put up with it, it can still be quite deadly, and while you won't deal Umu level damage, you'll be able to still do a very large amount.

In addition, a Fury warrior's gear needs are more demanding than an Arms warriors. +Hit gear is critically essential, and a good target range is between 7~10% Hit, whereas an Arms warrior can get away with none.

Fury warriors, especially in regard to Blood Thirst, also want to pile on as much +AP and +Strength gear as possible. In addition to Imp. Battle Shout, a Fury warrior's total attack power should always rest between 1000~1200.

Crit chance, as with any warrior, is also highly important, but unlike Arms warriors who need to have high crit chances in order maximize their burst damage, a Fury warrior can afford to sacrifice some in lieu of other stats (Hit / AP / Str). This is because a Fury warrior's relative chance to crit is greatly increased by the sheer number of attacks they'll be dishing out while duel wielding. For this reason, having an off-hand that's as fast as possible is highly helpful since it'll generate the majority of your critical strike chances. The more crits a Fury warrior can produce, the more often Flurry procs, which increases the chance of getting another critical strike faster, which will again proc Flurry, etc. (Faster weapons also increase the number of Dodges you can produce from mobs, which will then lead to an Overpower chance, which will then lead to more Flurry, potentially another Dodge, etc. It's a vicious cycle!)

As far as enchants go for a Fury warrior, the typical rogue enchant setup works well with warriors, mixing +15 Agi and Crusader, which will add to crit chance and attack power.

Aaaaand, that's my guide on being a Fury warrior. I'd like to think Umu would be proud. ^_^
[Image: 85443.png][Image: 85444.png]
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#3
Just a note - no Cleaving on Razorgore. Very likely to break CC unintentionally.
"She is a soothsayer. She’s a mystic. She is a witch doctor, able to see into people’s hearts and minds. She’s also touched by the elements." -Naomie Harris
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#4
*edits post* Sorry 'bout that.
[Image: 85443.png][Image: 85444.png]
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#5
No problem, great posts guys! Umu is working on his opus about DPSing as a warrior, I'll be interested to see what the combined posts will spark in terms of discussion. Whatever helps!

Tae
"She is a soothsayer. She’s a mystic. She is a witch doctor, able to see into people’s hearts and minds. She’s also touched by the elements." -Naomie Harris
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#6
Zuipol Wrote:As far a builds go, probably the best DPS Fury build, which would also be deadly in PvP, would be: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LMGxdhbZVVuV0xoVo">http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LMGxdhbZVVuV0xoVo</a><!-- m -->
I think I should have included impale in my build, I can hit alot harder with it. Also, can't really think of a reason to use that talent point on Bloodrage, that 150 hp seemed too immaterial to waste a talent point on.
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#7
2h fury build, Two-Handed Weapon Specialization or Impale?
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#8
This is what Gra'zak is currently spec'd to. 2H Arms
I've been hearing many things about endless rage not helping enough. I need to do some raiding to really see since lately I've been PvPing my butt off.

My progression might end up being this by 70 but still considering losing endless rage and the improved mortal strike for some enrage love then deathwish..
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#9
Ronx Wrote:2h fury build, Two-Handed Weapon Specialization or Impale?

I would go down two-handed weapon specialization. It is a constant +5% to all damage you do, which will end up affecting your critical hits. Impale, from what I've gathered only applies to yellow crits from abilities.

Although you could go 3/5 2H Spec and still 2/2 impale. I also found unbridled wrath an okay talent for dual wielding and aweful for two-handers since it really is geared to fast dual wielding. Don't underestimate the debuff from demoralizing shout or added duration and range from booming voice.

Combine those with your improved thunderclap, and you'll see a drop in DPS from enemies.
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#10
As fury warrior, and having been almost exlusively fury for over a year now (I have enjoyed a couple of respec's to protection), I am always looking for ways to improve my fury build in talents and/or equipment. With the upcoming BC, I will be able to implement Mortal Strike and still be able to have Flurry, which is essential to a fury build. This is the <a href="http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-warrior/talents.html?353003013020105103010000505203050500005000000000000000000000000000">Talent Build</a> that I will be using.
Feel free to critique.
"Passion and shame torment him, and rage is mingled with his grief."

~Virgil~
[Image: playerfeed_1902018_bigsig.gif]
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#11
As nice as mortal strike is, I really do not see it working very well with dual wielding unless you pick a slow and hard hitting main hand: But you'd want something fast from the investment in unbridled wrath.

I'm not going to tell you how to build your character but I will show you what I would spec if I was going heavily into arms and fury if dual wielding.

Arms/fury
ARMS
-Kept your base talents in the first few tiers.
-I stopped at sweeping strikes in the arms tree. Keeping this for when you need to dump some rage and lay some hurt on two people at once.
-Weapon mastery is only really worth having if you put all two ranks in it for the 100% resist rate so spent the 1 point elsewhere.
-Improved disciplines I think could be handy but very situational so I didn't include it.
-Invested into improved hamstring: One of the biggest issues with dual wielding warriors, from a PvP perspective, is in order to maximize their effectiveness, they have to constantly be attacking a target and causing white damage. This can be tricky when dealing with people who keep moving. Improved hamstrings fixes this. Wink

FURY
-Kept base talents you the first two tiers
-Got rid of cleave: As nice the bonus damage is, I believe that battle shout's bonus more valuable. At 60, a rank 5/5 improved battle shout increases the 232 buff up to 278. Plus, you got sweeping strikes to help a little.
-Piercing howl, when it comes to PvP anyway, is very valuable.
-Blood Craze really offers very small regeneration at a slow rate. After being critical hitted, I do not think the HP regen will help a huge amount. Dropped the points and invested in battle shout.
-Kept dual wield spec, enrage, flurry: all needed
-Picked up deathwish and bloodthirst. Can you say owie? Blood thirst's based of AP so weapon choice doesn't matter too much. And with the battleshout up, you can dish massive amounts of damage.
I hope this helps or gives you some new ideas.
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#12
Hmm, thanks for the suggestions.
"Passion and shame torment him, and rage is mingled with his grief."

~Virgil~
[Image: playerfeed_1902018_bigsig.gif]
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