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*_*_*_* NITPICKING ALERT *_*_*_*

So there's a general tradition that I've seen in roleplaying in Ironsong, WoW as a whole, and even back to Ye Olde MUDs. Levels don't exist - just seasons.

I understand the basic gist of it. Traditionally, the problem with the term "Level" is that it seems to be a Game term, lacking any sort of reference within the In Character game world. In MUDs I played based on the Belgariad, Mallorean, and Wheel of Time, it jarred ("I'm a 90th level Aes Sedai"). So what about WoW?

I dunno. "Hey, I'll get my next season soon!" seems just as jarring. Time seems to pass differently for different folks, and then once we're seventy "seasons" old, we stop aging. And how old is 70 seasons? 70 years, since Warcraft appears to have no seasons at all? 35 years old, based on a wet and dry season? 17.5 years old, based on the four-season New England year? 17.5 is a traditional age to go about slaying dragons, now that I think about it (no sarcasm - look at the majority of fantasy out there, and 17.5 might actually be a little old). If season isn't related to age at all, then it lacks any in character meaning in the first place.

So. Why not just use levels? It's a real term to ask what level of training you're at, and we're not all Superheroes, so during our character's life in-game, we have progressed in our training. We rank Martial Artists by belt level, and western fencers are ranked E through A. Druids even get a letter from Hamuul Runetotem (or some other druid, I forget who), asking the Druid to visit him when they reach their 14th Level.

There's multiple ways to roleplay, and none are right or wrong. Just posting my thoughts.
I've always just tried to RP levels as levels of training or experience. You can mention practicing your craft or training with the elders... seasons don't really make sense. Seasons as age really don't fit since each race ages differently. An elf and an orc won't be the same biological age after the same number of seasons. Just something to think about. Smile
Yeah, I avoid talk of seasons or levels at all. Generally, on my toons that actually talk of course, if I must speak of a coming level I talk of it in terms of feeling worthy to seek more training from my elders or the like.
In terms of time seasons work well, since they are universal between all races it is easy enough to comprehend the concept of someone having seen 100 summers. Also in a lot of fantasy the levels of education vary, many people are not able to read or write at all, and thus putting things into terms they can understand is needed.

For game play I guess it is up to the character involved. If your character is aging a calendar year for each game level then referring to your level gains in terms of seasons makes sense. If your character ages slower/faster then another term would probably be easier to understand.
Etsuko - Monk
Razzlixx Blingwell - Warlock
Cloudjumper Wildmane - Druid (Inactive)
I agree with yah CJ, progression by seasons seems to be the most common and easily understood RP concept (yes, its old and all, but hey.)

I've tried to substitute other things with certain aspects of the character. I had a warrior who accumulated scars as tokens, my rogue in EQ completed contracts and Gholjan, for the longest of time...was pulling off jobs. Everytime without fail, people would wonder what the heck I was talking about. I, of course, have since fallen out of using IC explanation of my level at all.
[Image: 2738341mWkUR.png]
I tend to avoid direct references when I can. It's an OOC concept, thus it is best discussed OOC'ly. I will occasionally use terms like more or less "experienced".
Kosath Whitehorn
"The Tribe is my weapon.  I am their shield."
The term "seasons has" always been something that has picked at me for the reasons that were mentioned by Waka. Its not something that seems logical in a RP In game sense. Especially because people interpret that a "season" is one year. And realistically if this is something that is universally understood by all characters on the SErver then when everyone hits 70, they stop aging!....then when some sort of catasrophe happens or some world event happens then everyone can age another 10 years! then stop aging again.

I agree that if your referring to your level...its an OOC Concept and should be left as such. It is possible to RP without refering to an actual number in comparison to someone else. We can see numbers, but we can use other methods to compare ourselves to others such as "less/more experienced", "less/more training" etc.

We are all on an RP server and have chosen to immerse ourselves in WoW. We technically should not be refering to our level in any way as it ruins the whole concept of RP for me and possibly others.

Anyways sorry for ranting, some of this may not make any sense.

Oh and by the way I will be in my 25th season in 6 days. (It just doesnt fit even in real life....lol)
I've always hated it. I generaly will avoid the short term of, say, level 25 when talking IC, and say 25th level of training instead. It's my level of skill as decided by my trainers.

There's other things like this that bug me too, people trying to talk about OOC things in an IC manner, but then using really dumb substitute words. Was a fad in another game I've played to refer to the "message tree". I would reply that sticking messages to such a messed up surface is dumb, and I'll just continue to use the message boards in the town hall.

They would refer to e-mail as e-scroll. Uh... You're dropping that part that exists in the game, and keeping the part that doesn't? Just call it mail!!

Exp till level? Pages in a book. "I only have 156892 more pages till my next season!" Better read fast, or the farmers will miss their fall harvest!
It's like whispers.

I just cannot wrap any kind of RP reasoning around be able to talk to anyone, on any continent, in any dimension- just by knowing their name. I don't RP whispers because unless I'm a master of the arcane arts, I shouldn't be able to do it.

Besides. A bear just doesn't know how to whisper.
I think of whispers the same way as I think of guild chat... they have nothing to do with where you physically are. Otherwise, people wouldn't be able to RP in guild chat at all. With that in mind, however, I've always had a hard time with RPing in guild chat because if I'm in Stratholme, why should I be able to talk to someone in Orgrimmar? I've tried pretending that I can hear a whisper on the wind or something (using my druidy talents or what have you) but I'm never able to completely reconcile physical location and guild chat.
Guild chat I've always treated as separate from the game and more of an actual guild hall that we're all in. Hence why my characters tend to make some sort of entrance and exit.
Kaerrah Wrote:Guild chat I've always treated as separate from the game and more of an actual guild hall that we're all in. Hence why my characters tend to make some sort of entrance and exit.

That's kind of the way I've always interpreted it as well. Any sort of RP I'm doing in the guild channel is, in my head, in a grand Tribal Hall presided over by trolls. I just doublethink my location.
I took "seasons," or less often circles, as an IC synonym for level. It really doesn't apply to age as far as I'm concerned, and it's better to RP age aside from season. Not to criticize anybody who does or to say that their lame in gilded terms, but I prefer that age would rather not be RPed in relation to level. It's like Kosath and CJ said, level is more OOC, and that leaves age as more of an IC thing if you see things similairly. Age really doesn't apply to toons, because a bunch of 70 year olds probably can't swing an axe like they do in WSG or the Ramparts. If you do RP a level as years and age, then that's completely up to the player, but it probably isn't the best; not to mention that age is practically irrelevant to players in PvP and PvE servers. I prefer age as an IC concept, it allows for diversity like the old Orc over there at level 36, or that teen Tauren that is level 70.

However, back on the main subject before I went off rambling on levels and age, I appreciate the concept of "seasons" and "circles," they allowed the idea to be passed on in an acceptable IC way, instead of saying, "Sorry mon, but ya need ta be a few mo' levels to be wit us."
I've always thought there is no reason to shun the word "level" just because of the connotation. Why /must/ it be purely OOC? Objectively there is no real reason. I understand that individuals' subjective experiences of hearing the term in-character might be sufficient reason not to use it - you just find it jarring or what have you. That said, some of the suggestions in this thread about using the term level are perfectly acceptable in my opinion.

Given the specific trainers and quests by class, you could look at each adventuring class as an initiatory order that charts the progress of its members and permits them access (for a price - training isn't free!) to their greater secrets as they grow in power. There's nothing about the word level that is inherently more out of character than calling them circles or stages or seasons or anything else.

"Ah've finally attained de pinnacle o'mah trainin', an' been 'nitiated intah de 70th level. Dese secrets ain't been taught t'folk afore recent times. De trolls what be trainin' me offer t'teach some brand new mojo t'recognize de 'cheivement!"

Granted, the cultic language works easily for a Priestess.

"My friends and Tribemates, thank you for your aid and support in our journey into the haunted halls of the Auchenai Crypts. Completing the tasks set for me there has allowed me to reach a new level of training that I will use to better shield the Tribe."

"Hello everyone! After much haggling with the Order, I've been allowed to study some of our rarest texts in the pursuit of greater pow...knowledge - all for the good of the Tribe of course! My dear little demons have learned new levels of power as well!"

"Hey dere rapscallions an' miscreants, listen up! I jus' brought down a Gronn an' sure if it isn't time t'be takin' my trappin', tamin', an' targettin' skills up another level! For the Horde! Now, who wants t'go rile up some trouble?"

The following samples are meant for example and entertainment purposes only. Any similarity to any actual persons, living or undead, real or fictional, should be considered wholly intentional. Laugh, dangit!

Just my tuppence.
"She is a soothsayer. She’s a mystic. She is a witch doctor, able to see into people’s hearts and minds. She’s also touched by the elements." -Naomie Harris
Shillatae Wrote:Given the specific trainers and quests by class, you could look at each adventuring class as an initiatory order that charts the progress of its members and permits them access (for a price - training isn't free!) to their greater secrets as they grow in power.

With Blood Elf Pala, er, Blood Knights, this is literaly the case. As you level up and do the class quests, you are officialy given higher ranks in the Blood Knight order. I believe Rei is currently an Adept if I recall.

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