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Possible change to guildchat
#1
Hi folks,

We're giving some consideration to changing around some of the basic ways that Ironsong operates, and we'd like to hear your feedback.

We've been talking about removing the In-Character stricture from Guildchat, making Guildchat OOC if people choose to use it that way. We would follow up by creating a global channel for roleplay (IronsongRP, if you like) to be specifically used for in-character commentary.

While this is a fairly radical step to be considering, I feel that there are a few benefits to consider.

-It would enable us to RP with out-of-guild individuals. This includes our raid allies and our prospective members.
-We could potentially use it as a recruitment vehicle. IronsongLFG ended up taking off hugely back before the Dungeon Finder feature was implemented, and this channel could help unify the population of Horde RPers on Silver Hand.
-The content of the channel would be pure RP, as opposed to announcements of Achievements, which are OOC.
-This may serve to solidify peoples' intent to roleplay, while allowing the guildchat feature to function as both a chat feature for guildmates and a logistical/organizational tool for events.

I am not without concerns, however. We are, and will always be, a roleplay guild. Thus, I am concerned that taking this action may send a message that Roleplay is marginalized and segregated. I want to emphasize that this is exactly the opposite of what I want for the guild, however. We should consider whether or not this would actually strengthen RP by giving it a pure, dedicated, uncluttered vehicle.

There is also the concern of RP griefers, and there are a few ways to address this as well. Namely, being circumspect with who we share the channel name, and judicious use of /ignore.

Regardless, I'd really like to hear what you all think of all of this. Merits? Flaws?
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#2
I have already expressed my support of this, but to supplement the points you already mentioned:

- This could present those who don't talk much in guildchat the opportunity to express themselves in a more lively manner
- An added effect would be a good example of active guildchat to those who may have recently joined (new guild members may get the wrong impression if a lot of folks aren't talking in guildchat)
- Greetings and goodbyes could be done regardless of IC-ness (for instance, not everyone is prepared and willing to be IC as soon as they log in. Likewise, as people are logging out, they wouldn't have to contemplate some IC farewell post (especially if they hadn't been RPing before logging out))

(May add more as I think of other supplemental advantages)
Kretol Earthshaker

Army of Alts:
Karthrok, Kevarn, Kamran, Skoln, Mothok, Madoc, Mordruk, Krotahk
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#3
As much as I see where you are coming from, I would have to say I dislike this idea.

We already have that exact same structure. It's called IC guild chat and IronsongOOC. All you would be doing is switching where it goes. If people want to RP with us, take the time to fill out an app and join the guild like everyone else had to do. Perhaps we could use the channel "IronsongRP" to give to applicants so we can get a feel for their character before they actually join guild. Or we can use it as a way to RP between guilds as well.

Regardless, Guild chat (even with achievements) has always been IC and should remain that way.
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#4
Well as noted already, we do have a similar system in place, just reverse of what you are suggesting.

The plus sides I can currently think of (some or all may have been mentioned already):

- Guild chat will be more lively and players will get to know players
- A RP channel would be a place, for those that wish to RP, they can join and others will know to expect in-character interactions by everyone in the channel (as opposed to guild members logging in and just plain not wanting to RP while others are attempting to interact with them).
- Out of guild RP would be much easier over longer distances
- RP channel could be used in combination with forum application to iron out individuals so they know what to expect RP wise.
- No more threatening gestures with the "OOC Stick"

The negative I can currently think of (some or all may have been mentioned already):

- Impression that we are no longer an RP guild.
- Seperation of those that "RP a lot" and those that "RP a little" might lead to some internal discord among members.
- Potential harassers in RP channel (but could be solved via a simple password if we can still do that)
- I no longer get to use the "OOC Stick"


Like with most things I think if it is seriously considered, we will need to have a significant trial period before a final decision is made. Either way, a player can customize their chat channels to show them what they want.
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#5
Except then you'd be excluding friends and non-guilded alts from OOC conversation...


And as much as I like RP, I think when I'm playing with my wife I'd miss the OOC a whole lot more than the RP.
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#6
Why not utilize guild chat as a medium where the most people can participate? I personally have not felt... totally comfortable participating in guildchat for a long time. As an IC medium, it is inconsistent. How can it generally be regarded as 'the guild hall' when at times people will throw in comments from elsewhere, or people will make IC remarks about achievements? Furthermore, many people in the guild have changed their playstyles. Not everyone is RPing as much as they may have done in the past. For these people, guildchat is essentially a channel they may as well have muted. The main guild channel should, once again, provide a communication medium for the -most- amount of members. I know change is difficult/unwanted for many at first, but usually it's for the best in the long run.

(This was initially posted to Mel, before other responses appeared)

Edit: Also, IronsongOOC could still remain for OOG contacts and friends. Either that or simply use IronsongLFG.
Kretol Earthshaker

Army of Alts:
Karthrok, Kevarn, Kamran, Skoln, Mothok, Madoc, Mordruk, Krotahk
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#7
Quote:Edit: Also, IronsongOOC could still remain for OOG contacts and friends. Either that or simply use IronsongLFG.


Yeahh.... but if guild chat is OOC, ironsongooc is going to be a barren wasteland and I've had some great conversation in there while babysitting she who cooks my meals.

It just seems like a weird direction to take it all. And your argument really does (in my mind) point to the marginalization of RP. If guild chat is such an uncomfortable place for IC to the point that we move it to an optional channel, how is that not the same thing as saying we're just a guild that has some RPers in it and not really an RP guild?



Edited because I fail at quote tags apparently.

Edited again for a totally not thread derailing question: How would I go about doing those shiny Icons/tooltipped links you've got going on Kretol?
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#8
The majority of RP guilds that I've seen have had OOC guildchat. Just some food for thought.

Also, I have no intention of leaving IronsongOOC for contact with alts and friends. There may not be -as much- conversation, but perhaps it would also encourage alts to join (especially with the guild perks coming up).

Furthermore, now that you mention the guild turning into 'not really an RP guild'... as the game progresses, many folks will probably change their focus with the game. For those that were once Ironsong but left as a result of lack of interest in RP solely... why should we not improve the guild to cater to more types of players? Why should we have to lose good guildmates simply because they don't RP anymore? Or, for that matter, why should we turn away awesome people who would otherwise be able to adhere to our CoC, but are simply disqualified because they prefer not to RP?

The game is changing. I believe we need to change as well to keep up, especially with the ever-dwindling RP populace on our release-day server.
Kretol Earthshaker

Army of Alts:
Karthrok, Kevarn, Kamran, Skoln, Mothok, Madoc, Mordruk, Krotahk
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#9
I can understand the folks that feel changing guildchat from IC to OOC will be sending the wrong message about the Tribe. I also understand (and think he has truly earned the "Farseer" title) when Kretol mentions that the game is changing. We essentially have to choose whether we will stick to out current ways and risk becoming "extinct," or adapting and changing, while staying true to the essence of what Ironsong is.
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#10
((See my message on page 3)) I change my mind too often!
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#11
The idea of the proposed change does cause me some concern, and initially I rejected it. On further consideration I do think this change could be good for us if we do it correctly. Indeed it might improve on our RP given that many folks find RP in the guild channel uncomfortable, myself included. Also as Sreng stated above this would allow a channel that all RP oriented folks could use, in guild or not. I know I have a few friend on the server that like to RP, and I am sure they would appreciate a channel dedicated to RP Horde side. Especially if the channel is hosted by a dedicated group of RPers (I am looking at you Ironsingers here), from a dedicated RP guild.

We should probably leave the IronsongOOC channel open for those folks outside the guild that want to interact with us as well in an OOC capacity.

My proposal would be for the following;

IronsongOOC - For OOC discussions to include folks outside the guild.
IronsongRP - For the guild and external folks primary RP use.
Guildchat - to be converted to OOC from Ic and used for in guild discussions.

We should give this a decent trial period to see what happens before we make this a perminent and offical guild change. And I would ask the Ironsingers and the other RP focused members to really give this a thorough and unbiased testing before deciding it isn't for them. I understand that change can be difficult but lets see what we can do with this new format. Smile


Also I would strongly recommend anyone interested in RP take a read through Kretol's Big Roleplay Guide Thread located here. We have gotten a little sloppy with our RP, myself included, and it would be a good idea for a refresher for everyone.
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Etsuko - Monk
Razzlixx Blingwell - Warlock
Cloudjumper Wildmane - Druid (Inactive)
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#12
As I read the mighty Sreng's original post it sounds to me the desire is to promote even more roleplay on Silver Hand, not less. Right now our roleplay is limited to /gchat and we would like to include others outside the guild. Is anyone opposed to the goal of widening our roleplaying audience and cast?

As a thought exercise, create an ironsongRP channel and make NO changes to our current channel structure. I'm just brain-dumping ideas here. /gchat can remain as it is, maybe as roleplay for those of us inside the guild hall, where non-guild members are prohibited. I'm sure there are issues I'm not thinking through but these things tend to work themselves out over time.

Does the RP community on .. er, what's that other server called? ... handle this differently?

-Magwar
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#13
Kretol Wrote:perhaps it would also encourage alts to join (especially with the guild perks coming up).

Erm... I always got the impression that you guys didn't want alts that get sporadic play in the guild taking up space. I've got a full server of alts and only three (two? four?) of them are guilded simply because they might get played twice a month.
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#14
I like it.

1. For well over a year now, /gu has been the realm of a very small number of Ironsong members, and I find myself still not knowing many of my guildmates, in or out of game.

2. The RP has been increasingly difficult to combine with various non-guild friends/alts. With our current set-up, I predict that we are going to lose more guild members and/or guild alts due to the guild achievement changes in Cata, not due to lack of wanting to RP. Many in the guild could also finally have a way to raid with their tight knit raid groups / real life friends / families and still be an acitve IST RP member.

3. Would we rather be an RP guild that only talks to ourselves, or an RP guild that acts as an oasis for the horde on the server to RP, much like IST was a raiding oasis in expansions past with /ironsongLFG? (which is how I learned about this guild in the first place, way back in the 40 man days).

4. Due to our current guild story, we do have a great chance to "rebuild" the guild hall into a public tavern. We could be the anti-Garrosh and *invite* all the horde races into our inner sanctum!

5. Semi-public channels can be moderated to a degree, with /ignore and people being kicked from the channel. To be fair though, I don't expect a major issue with griefing.
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#15
After reading some of the arguments for the change, I'm going to change my view point to agreeing with making the change. And I'd also agree with the chat channel names that Cloudjumper proposed.
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