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jabadue

Patch 3.0.2
#1
They seem to be encouraging synergy between enhancement and resto. My main issues are with the utility of Riptide and Tidal Waves. Apparently, resto gear now has crit on it. These are two builds I am considering:

First build is for crit and Earthliving weapon build with Improved Earth Shield.

Elemental (0 points)

None

Enhancement (13 points)

3/3 Enhancing Totems
4/5 Ancestral Knowledge
3/3 Improved Shields
3/3 Elemental Weapons

Restoration (48 points)

5/5 Improved Healing Wave
3/3 Ancestral Healing
5/5 Tidal Focus
3/3 Healing Focus
1/1 Tidal Force
5/5 Restorative Totems
5/5 Tidal Mastery
1/1 Nature's Swiftness
5/5 Purification
1/1 Mana Tide Totem
1/1 Cleanse Spirit
2/2 Blessing of the Eternals
2/2 Improved Chain Heal
3/3 Nature's Blessing
3/3 Ancestral Awakening
1/1 Earth Shield
2/2 Improved Earth Shield

and the second goes deep in Resto for Tidal Waves and Riptide (instant) cast.

Elemental (0 points)

None

Enhancement (8 points)

5/5 Ancestral Knowledge
3/3 Improved Shields

Restoration (53 points)

5/5 Improved Healing Wave
3/3 Ancestral Healing
5/5 Tidal Focus
3/3 Healing Focus
1/1 Tidal Force
5/5 Restorative Totems
5/5 Tidal Mastery
1/1 Nature's Swiftness
5/5 Purification
1/1 Mana Tide Totem
1/1 Cleanse Spirit
2/2 Blessing of the Eternals
2/2 Improved Chain Heal
3/3 Nature's Blessing
3/3 Ancestral Awakening
1/1 Earth Shield
1/2 Improved Earth Shield
5/5 Tidal Waves
1/1 Riptide


Any thoughts? I may decide after I see what the final numbers are on the live servers. There was some discrepancy between different talent calculators that I saw.

-Jaba
Have Mana Tide, Will Travel
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#2
I know *nothing* about playing a Resto Shaman. I would think you would benefit more from tidal waves/riptide.

This was my general idea.

Arms (51 points)

5/5 Deflection
2/3 Iron Will
3/3 Tactical Mastery
2/2 Imp. Overpower
1/1 Anger Management
2/2 Impale
3/3 Deep Wounds
3/3 Two Handed Weapon Specialization
3/3 Taste For Blood
1/1 Sweeping Strikes
3/5 Poleaxe Specialization
2/2 Imp. Intercept
2/2 Second Wind
1/1 Mortal Strike
2/2 Strength of Arms
2/2 Imp. Slam
1/3 Imp. Mortal Strike
2/2 Unrelenting Assault
3/3 Sudden Death
1/1 Endless Rage
2/2 Blood Frenzy
4/5 Wrecking Crew
1/1 Bladestorm

Fury (20 points)

3/3 Armored to the Teeth
5/5 Cruelty
2/5 Unbridled Wrath
1/1 Piercing Howl
5/5 Commanding Presence
4/5 Enrage

Protection (0 points)
[Image: AWOeJWn.png]
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#3
Jaba you might be able to find a more accurate talent calculator here at http://www.wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Shaman

They have been updating their calculators as changes have been made.
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#4
Yah jaba, the first build you linked I think is pretty much the one that a lot of people are going to be running at startup. At least from the 25m perspective. The usefulness of tidal waves and riptide is pretty much negated in that part. Not that they could not be slightly useful, just for the most part they are not that great. I think I may be getting tidal waves as of patch and doing some further testing(mostly because I did not get much true testing done on it in ptr)

Some mild suggestions

Quote:Int is 0.6mp5
Int is 0.33crit rating.
Int is 0.18spell power.
Total: Int is worth of two item points but cost only one. (these are approx. over 5m if we have kings and a replenishment)

So in that thought I would suggest actually filling out your ancestral knowledge. Also, another suggestion would be to try for the synergy of improved shields and imp water shield (you may have had it, but in my precursory glance you did not) When glyphed for, it does have a substantial amount of mana return. Will link the exact on that once I find it again.

Also in the same token on why you would consider dropping tidal waves, if you need to find room in your build for imp water shield, you may consider dropping ancestral awakening. It only procs on riptide LHW and HW crits, which while in it self is good, in a 25m atmosphere it loses a lot of its benefit. When I used it in PTR it seemed to always just be doing over heal as well usually on you when it can find no other injured targets.

My thoughts on builds would look something a bit like this.

For raid healing when you know you will not cast a lot of the extra stuff.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hZbx0IZxceuVxoxkrhR">http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hZbx0IZxceuVxoxkrhR</a><!-- m -->

And this is the one I am most likely going to run

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0x0hZxceuVxoxkrhRx">http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0x0hZxceuVxoxkrhRx</a><!-- m -->


The reason I take tidal waves is because of something I think they were aiming at, but not clearly defined. People thought may haps that we were supposed to be a rotation healer. I kinda agree with that thought, but not necessarily the same way. I see tidal waves being useful as something to keep up for emergency spot healing. with about 300 haste(the suggested now) that has the potential of giving you one really farking fast Healing Wave. This could save a life. Now, I have no where near that much haste, infact I will probably never see that much. But in everything I have seen so far, if you have that kind of haste, why not take it. If not, it is up to you
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#5
Berserker rage in all stances, how did I miss that one.

I'm starting to wonder where I'm going to put all of these buttons.

It's interesting the way the protection talents overlap in a way that makes cruelty secondary for crits. There are better ability-specific things in protection for boosting threat now on the things you use the most.

I think for now I will go with this:

http://wotlkwiki.info/talent/warrior.htm...1330113321

On the way to 80 I'll have to evaluate what becomes most useful, but I like improved spell reflect and I would definitely finish off cruelty. Plus, I think someone in every raid should have improved disarm now. I'll have to find some math on "Armored to the teeth". That one might be interesting.
Kosath Whitehorn
"The Tribe is my weapon.  I am their shield."
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#6
I like your second build better, Zeengo. I think that even without the procs on Tidal Waves, it's a good talent, unless I'm reading it wrong. A goood trade away from Everliving weapon.

That said, I'm a dirty traitor who will be leveling Enh/Resto, probably with a pre-Lich King build of some sort, only 41 points in enhancement, to keep survivability up.
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#7
Armored to the teeth will give a good amount of attack power (250ap for 15000 armor, 300 for 18000, etc) and with many of our abilities now based off of attack power(shockwave!!1!eleven!, new conc blow, revenge, heroic throw, Thunderclap) I think 3 talents in that first tier is a must.

oh mah gah

I'll finish off cruelty, incite, imp spell reflect, and I'll think about imp disarm with how the bosses look in WotLK. It's nice, but will it be useful? If not, then those two talent points may go to imp charge.
"Passion and shame torment him, and rage is mingled with his grief."

~Virgil~
[Image: playerfeed_1902018_bigsig.gif]
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#8
Shaaaaman forum! *cries*
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#9
Quote: and I'll think about imp disarm with how the bosses look in WotLK. It's nice, but will it be useful? If not, then those two talent points may go to imp charge.

I'm pretty sure the damage increase is for everyone attacking the mob, isn't it? Of course, yeah, if they make all bosses immune to disarm, then it's not so great.
Kosath Whitehorn
"The Tribe is my weapon.  I am their shield."
Reply
#10
The immunity was what I was thinking. Most bosses are immune, not all, like Attunmen, but most, so it would only be useful in pvp really. And with how things are looking, prot could be quite potent in pvp now. snare breaks, actual damage, damage shield, imp spell reflect...yeah. Prot warriors, your day has come.
"Passion and shame torment him, and rage is mingled with his grief."

~Virgil~
[Image: playerfeed_1902018_bigsig.gif]
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#11
Shoo, warriors, this is the stick-dropper's forum!

I agree that Improved Shields is really too good to pass up, especially with the heavier mana requirements we have now.

Zeengo: share your thoughts on Elemental Weapons vs. Tidal Wave. I'm guessing that you're thinking that the ability to buff DPS is worth the loss of the haste effect and the better +healing, or is there more to it than that?

I make take Riptide for a while just to play around with it. I'm not quite sure what it's good for, yet.
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#12
Whoa, this IS the shaman forum... we took a wrong turn somewhere. Better leave before we get stabbed with a pointy totem.
Kosath Whitehorn
"The Tribe is my weapon.  I am their shield."
Reply
#13
In regards to Tidal Waves(here called TW) and Elemental weapons (EW). There are several contributing factors to the decision of going EW over TW. While they are both very well scaling talents I find however, that choosing a talent that scales around skill ranks has a bit more benefit then one that scales specifically around gear distribution. For example, and the true reason I take EW, with full points go gain 30% on top of what Earthliving weapon does normally. While it at our current state only adds an additional 110 to our healing, that bonus still equals out to +33 healing; almost the equivalent of adding a second healing enchant on our weapon.

Meanwhile there are two parts of Tidal waves that scale(which would make it appear better in most cases). The haste factor for starters: 30% cast time reduced, that is on top of your haste but will not stack with any other cast time reducers(Bloodlust Berserking etc) and only applies to two of your heals.

Lesser healing wave 1.5 second normal 1.05 (round down) assuming you have no haste for 443(untalented) mana

Healing wave 2.5(assuming talented) 1.75 also assuming no haste. for 739 (untalented)mana

These are good numbers, but like I said stacks with nothing else and when spamming heals causes issues. Mostly in the fact that if you do not wait at least one global cooldown before blowing the LHW or HW it will not gain the haste but does eat the buff. Also in lowering cast time, it also slightly increases your HPS but decreases your HPM through mana consumption. A problem just recently happening to us due to no more downranking. Basically, if you use it as most people saw it intended, juggling chain and HW you would go oom considerably faster because of casting those enormous amount of mana you are tossing out. While IMp watershield and imp shields will account for some of this, it will not account for all and you will be needed to throw away another GCD to reup the shield constantly(which should have farking been taken off GCD>.<) Doing it the way I think of it though, using the TW as basically a free second NS would definetly increase your HPS with minimal HPM degredation. It is just a matter of how you wanna use it, and if you wanna go for the fast and easy or the deep in talent.

I really need to finish my debates in one go sometime >.<

Anyways, also with the talent the variable healing is on top of everything else which is also good, but only applies to the two heals already spoken of. This of course, lends itself to making HW more powerful. LHW of course does not necessarily get as much benefit due to the difference in healing coefficient. But now comes the scaling parts of it. In my eyes, in order to make this talent 100% shiny you would want to attempt to take HW further down in cast time, at current it is 1.75s. That means stacking haste to a point where it is either a 1s cast time or instant which with current gear is impossible. With my current gear set, I am at 102 haste (roughly 6.5 percent haste) which takes it down to a 1.63 cast time. To get it down to 1 second you would need 45% haste, which is completely COMPLETELY impossible to gear for. Closest we can get however is 1.5 second (making it a Lesser Healing Wave speed cast) which only requires 300 haste. Something that someone in high end black temple and SWP can achieve quite easily.

The problem however, is gearing haste now has the cut off point. If you go further then 300 haste, you are going to see a HUGE amount of efficiency drain off as you are now casting faster then your HPM can last. In general anymore, it is wise to not aim for higher then 300 as it will hurt you substantially, and no longer gem for it unless you absolutely need to. Personally I am keeping my haste gems for now.

Now of course all of this relies on one simple principle that has always been shamans deadening point, WE HAVE ISSUES WITH REACTIONARY HEALING. I believe everyone can agree, that for our ultimate efficiency we had had to down rank and spam chain heal for a good bit. Well now, we can no longer downrank, our efficiency in that department got hurt quite a bit, so now, our reactionary healing which for me was a rank 8 healing wave is now completely borked. So I have to rely on the max rank reaction which in most cases, will be over heal. This talent helps a bit to ensure we get that reaction heal off faster, but most other classes have either better reaction heals or hots that negate the need for reaction; just precast and forget it. So again, you have to weigh, which is going to perform better for you. Additionally haste and heal power that could pop your hps up higher and negate some of your overhealing on reactionary heals, or go with something that increases all healing flattly. Personally I am opting for the reactionary heal bonus, others chose the flat healing bonus. It is really up to the user where they wish to put their stock.
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#14
Wow, I really need to stop with the long drawn out responses. the TLBig GrinR of my last post can be condensed into this:

Elemental Weapons: More balancing for when you are soloing and adds a flat heal bonus to your most powerful weapon imbue now almost equal to having a second heal enchant on your weapon. In general ALL builds will want this eventually now.

Tidal Waves: Works well to shore up faster heal percentages and helps in emergencies, but requires a lot of gear management to get maximum function.
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#15
Oryx Wrote:Shoo, warriors, this is the stick-dropper's forum!

Ho'crap. Sorry. I should pay more attention. Well...marvel in my build while you're looking at it. xp
[Image: AWOeJWn.png]
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