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Healing Through Gruul
#1
I will not be there this Saturday, but if I were, I would make the following suggestions on healing during Gruul.

Starting at 10 growths, we might go to 2 three-person healing rotation groups on the main tank. Group 1 spams heals on MT until 50% mana, then, hands off to Group 2. Then, Group 1 heals raid and regens mana (Dreamless sleep potion). Rinse and Repeat. Each group should have HoTs, big heals, and smaller fast heals in each group, for instance Druid/Priest/(Shaman/Pallie).

After 10 growths, the rest of the raid may be on their own for healing (bandages and potions). If we can keep MT alive, I think we win.

I have also read that MT should drink Ironshield potions starting at 10 growths. Can anyone make those?

Happy Hunting!

-Jaba
Have Mana Tide, Will Travel
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#2
This post is full of win.

Logros and I were talking yesterday about how to maximize DPS during the Gruul fights. I think those are our two biggest hurdles: a) Keeping the tanks alive, and b) Generating enough DPS to burn Gruul down. These are really two sides of the same coin, though, because the longer it takes to kill him, the harder it will be to keep the tanks up.

It's really important that DPS comes to the fight as geared as possible. Potions, flasks, etc. can help too.
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#3
*nods* I think Psion is 100% right - we need to focus on healing the MT, and maximizing DPS. We can't really determine what gear folks show up in, other than providing flasks and possibly other consumables. Unfortunately, there's no real profit in Gruul's Lair, so any consumables that would be shared out would have to be payed for by the sharer themselves. Once I've got my Alchemist's Stone, I can suck up some of that cost and make stuff for the raid.

I've been trolling Elitist Jerks forums, and since my respec to Elemental, I've been trying to learn all I can about raiding composition for my class, and that's led me to reading up on group composition, and doing some suppositions of my own.

For Gruul, what Jaba posted is, imo, an excellent idea. To elaborate further on what Psion mentioned - in my reading, I've been looking at what folks do with elemental shamans for group comp.

The idea I suggested to Psion, which we kicked around a bit and improved on, was thus:

For a max-DPS group, we take 5 specific raid members and lump them together, in order to maximize their effectiveness. Composition would be:

Elemental Shaman (Logros, I believe I'm the only one)
Shadow Priest (Psion, any others?)
Resto Shaman (Jaba / Waka / other?)
Fire Mage (Rajana, other?)
Affliction Warlock (Tetsumis, Grommash) or Demonology Warlock (Sac Succ)

The goal would be to maximize the cross-benefits of each classes buffs, using our best-geared people. Now, I'm not an expert on all the classes, so if I've overlooked some benefit someone would bring, please do correct and build on the idea.

Elemental Shaman:
Tranquil Air (-20% threat), Totem of Wrath (+3% hit and 3% crit for spells), Mana Stream (30mp5). I can do a ton of DPS if threat and mana concerns are low.

Shadow Priest:
Vampiric Touch provides a huge amount of mana for the group, as well as with VE, healing. Psion can do crazy DPS as long as aggro can stay under control.

Restoration Shaman:
Wrath of Air (+101 Spell Damage), Healing Stream Totem (~200hp5)
Can spot-heal the group with Chain Heal after shatters, and contribute to raid/tank healing

Fire Mage:
Sustained DPS, benefiting from the group more than contributing to it specifically.

Warlock:
Ditto mage. Buffs are raid-wide unless I'm mistaken, so would be benefiting from the +dmg/crit and tons of mana, while having threat lowered.

**

I was also thinking about a BM hunter, for Ferocious Inspiration, but that requires the pet to stay alive, and I'm not sure how viable that is with the Cave Ins.

For positioning of overall groups, I think we need to limit the melee to 5 if possible. Have our ranged DPS at extreme range in an outer ring, then healers in a middle ring (~25 yards), and then have our melee in a ring at point blank range (~10 yards). Spreading out reduces the odds of someone being tossed at your feet for the Shatter.

One concern with having healers in a middle-ring setup is that some ranged DPS might have trouble staying within range of healing. It'd require ranged DPS to be on the ball for keeping track of where their healer is.
[Image: 2270166Iryxy.png]
Dromand (70 Tank/Healing Paladin), Logros (70 Enhancement Shaman), Denul (70 Shadow Priest), Bendon (70 AH-Mule Rogue)
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#4
Logros Wrote:Have our ranged DPS at extreme range in an outer ring, then healers in a middle ring (~25 yards), and then have our melee in a ring at point blank range (~10 yards)

Finding a way for the healers to stay a bit closer through it all would be awesome IMO. During Shatter, I'm always having to run to the back walls to avoid others/collisions and by the time I'm out of it (shatter) and able to run back in range of the MT to heal him, it can take time. And during growths 10, ect., healers truly don't have time to spare running around vs healing constantly and consistently. It would take a bit more coordination and people knowing truly which way to run yes, but the end results could be awesome.
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#5
Likewise, in reference to Logros idea, it would be possible to do the same for melee groups. Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, Feral Druid (a must), and DPS warriors.
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#6
Khrale is an elemental shaman, but i usually end up playing Freithe, who is an arcane mage. Vanea, who you have listed as fire, is also arcane. Saltin however is fire i believe.

Arcane puts out some insanely impressive dps, and benefits from having threat reduction in its talent tree. Just fyi.
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#7
Sound Wrote:Finding a way for the healers to stay a bit closer through it all would be awesome IMO.

I think we could get away with having 1 or 2 MT healers up close, as long as they're folks that know what's going to happen. Invariably we're going to get some folks without much experience doing the fight, so I think making the most out of our 'veterans' (haha) is a must.

Quote:Likewise, in reference to Logros idea, it would be possible to do the same for melee groups. Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, Feral Druid (a must), and DPS warriors.

*nods*

Feral Druid:
Leader of the Pack (+5% crit, heal on crit)

Assassination Rogue:
Improved Expose Armour (-3000 armour for Gruul)(Means tanks won't benefit from sunder/devestate)

Enhance Shaman:
Windfury Totem (20% extra swing with +578 AP, Strength of Earth Totem (+99 Str),Bloodlust

DPS Warrior:
Battle Shout (+305 AP)

Quote:Vanea, who you have listed as fire, is also arcane

Durr, I knew that. Fixed.

***

Imo, if we can get a Ret pally, they'd earn their keep if all they did was keep up Seal of the Crusader with the Sanctified Crusader talents (+3% crit for the raid)

I'm not sure how many healers we're bringing, but limiting it to 6-8 seems to be the suggestion of successful raids.

Also, I was thinking more about it, and I'm not sure how much of an issue ranged threat really is. Other than getting tossed into melee range and Hurtful Strike, there's no reason to hold back on ranged DPS. Maybe I'm still too Enhancement-minded. Cutting loose on threat and going full-out would probably mean anyone getting punted into the center would get a Hurtful and die, but that might be worth the risk.
[Image: 2270166Iryxy.png]
Dromand (70 Tank/Healing Paladin), Logros (70 Enhancement Shaman), Denul (70 Shadow Priest), Bendon (70 AH-Mule Rogue)
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#8
I think the trick for healing is to have the tank off to one side enough that healers can stand on the edge and still heal (if we use the same positioning, the north side). If healers can claim all the ledge area in the back they can stand in front of it for most of the fight, then spend very little time running for safety, and can still heal the tank all the way till the ground slam hits. This worked very well for me last time. I only had issues when the ground slam came early or someone ran to where I was hiding in the back because they couldn't see me.

However, its very important that healers stand in front of their hiding spots, not in them. That way cave ins won't deny you your safe spot. I also saw one person who got caught back in one of the nooks by a cave in and had issues getting out in time.
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#9
To clarify questions on Hunters. Ya want at least one Survival somewhere for their expose weakness talent. As for Ferocious Inspiration, it isn't very hard for us Beastmasters to keep our pets alive through the Gruul fight. Typically, it's Gruul himself who flattens Dusk after all the tanks get smushed.

I would love having two Paladins around. Seems like we can all use two or three of their buffs, and the healer types look like amazing spot healers from the few I've seen in action. For buffing Hunters, we benefit most from Might and Wisdom and pets can use Might if the pally is feeling particularly crazy. Kings just isn't as good overall.

And a note for hunters. I've kinda poked around, but it really seems that serpent sting is a waste of mana. Even a multi shot will likely do more damage for the same MP cost. Finally, we need to misdirect as often as possible so the other DPS classes have a bit more breathing room to work with. Perhaps we should be assigned to the offtanks as well so Melee DPS can more easily stay out of Hurtful Strike range?
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#10
Gioron Wrote:I think the trick for healing is to have the tank off to one side enough that healers can stand on the edge and still heal (if we use the same positioning, the north side)

That works well for the healers, but means the rest of the raid has to be closer together, as we're compressed into an ellipse rather than a circle. Imo, sticking with a circle layout is our best bet - it minimizes the chances of people getting tossed together for Shatter, and folks on the outer ring can get to safety.

Quote:As for Ferocious Inspiration, it isn't very hard for us Beastmasters to keep our pets alive through the Gruul fight.

That'd be handy then. It's not a huge buff (+3% damage for 10 seconds), but for BM hunters, keeping it up most of the time shouldn't be too hard.

Quote:I would love having two Paladins around

Healadins would be useful, yes. They're excellent healers, and the blessings would be a big help. A ret pally for the reason listed above would be nice too, imo.

Quote:Finally, we need to misdirect as often as possible so the other DPS classes have a bit more breathing room to work with.

Yes, yes and yes again. Misdirection is an amazing ability, and if anyone isn't spamming it, please do.

Quote:Perhaps we should be assigned to the offtanks as well so Melee DPS can more easily stay out of Hurtful Strike range?

It seems that once Eflu goes down, the rest of the raid follows fairly quickly. Maybe worthwhile on our first off-tank, in case Eflu goes down towards the end, but having more than two tanks seems like it's not useful for us.
[Image: 2270166Iryxy.png]
Dromand (70 Tank/Healing Paladin), Logros (70 Enhancement Shaman), Denul (70 Shadow Priest), Bendon (70 AH-Mule Rogue)
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#11
Just a note, Logros can make [item]Fel Mana Potion[/item], and thanks to Russetdawn, [item]Insane Strength Potion[/item]. I'll be leveling up my mage (64 atm) who's a herbalist, so hopefully I can amass reagents for making them for our Gruul raids. If folks can afford it, please do use a few consumables for Gruul, to give us a bit of an edge. We've got him to 4%, so a bit more and we'd have had him. It's the kind of thing that at this point, could make or break it for us Smile
[Image: 2270166Iryxy.png]
Dromand (70 Tank/Healing Paladin), Logros (70 Enhancement Shaman), Denul (70 Shadow Priest), Bendon (70 AH-Mule Rogue)
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#12
Logros can now create [item]Haste Potion[/item], with 2 Terocone and 1 Netherbloom. It's a big buff for any DPS that doesn't have to chain-chug mana pots.
[Image: 2270166Iryxy.png]
Dromand (70 Tank/Healing Paladin), Logros (70 Enhancement Shaman), Denul (70 Shadow Priest), Bendon (70 AH-Mule Rogue)
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#13
I have no real problem keeping Kiba alive. Mend Pet is plenty good enough to heal him thru and cave ins with no need to pull him back, and pets arn't effected by Shatter at all.
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#14
Just out of curiosity, does Tranquilizing Shot do anything to Gruul?
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#15
Never thought to try it on him, but unless he has some kind of Frenzy effect, no.
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