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Gods??
#1
Ok...this can be a touchy subject so I will preface it by saying lets not go too serious on things. I am trying to understand Azeroth Lore in relation to priests and who or what is actually worshipped or served by them. My guess is that Blizzard purposely leaves this area unaddressed to keep religeous differences/beliefs from being offensive...which I heartily agree with.

So in a loose thread and "in a nutshell" type of way...who do priests/shaman actually serve in the Horde?

Orcs -

Trolls - (The Loas?)

Forsaken - The Dark Lady

Blood Elves -

Tauren - The Earth Mother

Do blood elves worship the sun or the sunwell or what is the source of priestly magic?
The Blood Knights steal light...do priests do that also?

I would love some clarification on this...my research comes up very scarce on this topic.

thanks all
-=((D))=-
Sing True Ironsong!
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#2
There are a few ways to look at it.

They do have a bit of a heliocentric ideal, but it wasn't the Sun they worshiped per say. During the 3rd war, the elves worshiped the Light. Though some ostensibly lost their faith and stopped channeling its powers, their remained a few who did. There was no retcon regarding their loss of faith after the fall of Quel'thalas, so if there is an official faith change, it isn't in current lore.

I would think those who lost their connection to the Light would be candidates for following the Forsaken Shadow (minus the...dead thing)
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#3
A thread that I believe address' this topic. Found it on WoW-Europe roleplaying forum.

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html...3770&sid=1

However, it doesnt give you a straight answer, The one that sounded like he knew what he was talking about stated that "Elune is the only true god". This potentially meaning that each race may worship the same god under a different name. I think the same guy allso references to BE Priests NOT Worshipping "The Holy Light" (which may again be an Elune Reference). Instead there are words saying that BE stole their holy powers from M'uru. Which could suggest that BE's are not religious at all and worship no gods given their addiction to magic.

Despite these things said, I doubt it means that it isnt possible for a BE Priest to worship "The Holy Light", which in my opinion is the most likely candidate for them. BE are capable of controlling their addiction to the magics and would have the control to dedicate themselves to something like that.

Hope this helps you in some regards, as this is something I was wondering as well if there are any other thoughts.
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#4
I like that post...it also shows the confusion inherent in all of this debate. I wonder why there is just no simple answer?

My feeling more or less about the Blood elven priests is that they take their power as the blood knights do. Like you I cannot seem to find a straight answer on this topic so I will go with this in terms of rp right now. I will use the sun and phoenix as symbols of the elves power...but not necessarily as something they worship.

D
Sing True Ironsong!
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#5
Well, you're right about Tauren, but the not quite sure about the Trolls. The traditional Troll doctrines, including voodoo, is more of a shamanism, though it tends to be a mix of shamanism and shadow. Their gods are the Loa, but there are those that follow the Shadow.

Forsaken Priests, as it goes channel, the Shadow (more officially entitled in the RPG as the Forgotten Shadow); since many Undead are officially darker natured, they go the opposite direction of the Light. While Sylvanas is their Dark Lady, she is perceived more like a queen rather than a goddess.

Orcs worship nature, no specific gods. Shamanic communion of spirits of nature and the elements. Simple as that. Though there is some sort of inconsistency in the books that make them undefined in terms of ancestor worship and the element "Wild." Though there are some factions of Orcs that are Legion cultists.

Tauren, though your pretty much spot on, do have a form of Ancestor Worship. Though when you break it down, their shamanic worship of nature in the form of the Earth Mother is a little misguided, as the Earthmother officially does not exist in WoW lore, and I think that's a bit of a mistake on Bliz's part.

Blood Elves, as of now, practice a distorted version of the Holy Light. While few members of their race still remember their values of the light, the Blood Knight (which seems more prominent than the priest right now) is a class that bends the light to their will for their own ends, rather than commanding it in a symbiotic relationship for the greater good. Although I think that their mages follow the "Arcane" rather than the Light, though this is more of a study and a practice of an unliving, celestial energy rather than the religion of an alive and Holy force.

I should also note, for completeness sake: though rare, there are those that practice both the Forgotten Shadow and the Holy Light proper throughout the various races of the Horde.
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#6
From what I've heard about these subjects....


...The Blood elves DID worship "The Sun" which I would guess means that they were worshiping a sun god since they decided to do that as to go in the opisate direction of the the moon godess Elune, their priests had learned of "The Light" from human priests and some of them chose to follow that path. The blood knights though the original story was that they were stealing the light has been revealed in patch 2.4 that it was actually more akin to a willfull act my Muruu and now that Kael'thas stole Muruu, A'dal has offered to teach the blood knights of the "True Light".



.....The Tauren worship the earthmother which in general is basicly the Idea of Gaia the spirit of the world and i'm pretty sure that the earthmother has been part of WoW lore since they introduced the Tauren in WC3. (On a side note the earthmother in my opinion might have been one of the old gods that the titans supposedly destroyed perhaps she was the mother of all of the old gods and was just too powerfull or wasn't a threat to the titans new order that they didn't destroy her though no lore particularly points to this she IS supposed to be the living spirit of Azeroth so this is sort of a theory of mine.)


.....The Trolls as an anchient race (which may or may not have been the same race that became the elves.) worshiped the old gods before the titans came to azeroth which evidently they still fear the power of the old gods and through that fear Hakkar (actually a faceless one) took control of the Hakkarie trolls.(did they name him after them or were they named that after him?) More modern trolls now worship several different Animal gods(not sure which one the darkspears worshiped I have never seen any lore pointing to any one of them) and the troll priests were really more of witch docters and used mostly shadow magic(which makes me wonder how did horde priests learn to wield the light with the forsaken haveing shadow priests also?)


.....The orcs were Shammanistic plain and simple they worshiped the elements.


The Forsaken don't really have a god.(at least none i've heard of.) they worship Lady Sylvannas their queen and would do almost anything for her. (like I said I don't know how their priests learned to use holy magics unless some of them remembered it from life.....)



Is that every race?
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#7
According to the WoW d20 book, Elune is the only true deity in Azeroth.

However, religious activity that does not involve the worship of Elune can and does produce religious/spiritual phenomena (healing, priestly powers, etc).

The non-Elunite religious practices that the d20 book describes are:

Shamanism
Druidry
Worship of the Dragon Aspects
The Holy Light
Voodoo
Legion/Demon Worship
Scourge/Lich King Worship
Reverence of the Ancients, such as Aggamagan, Cenarius, Ursol and Ursoc, etc.

Strictly speaking, though, Elune is the only God of Azeroth.
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#8
Sreng Wrote:According to the WoW d20 book, Elune is the only true deity in Azeroth.

However, religious activity that does not involve the worship of Elune can and does produce religious/spiritual phenomena (healing, priestly powers, etc).

The non-Elunite religious practices that the d20 book describes are:

Shamanism
Druidry
Worship of the Dragon Aspects
The Holy Light
Voodoo
Legion/Demon Worship
Scourge/Lich King Worship
Reverence of the Ancients, such as Aggamagan, Cenarius, Ursol and Ursoc, etc.

Strictly speaking, though, Elune is the only God of Azeroth.

So, a Troll wouldn't say "Oh my god", they would say "Oh my voodoo"? I want to be able to say things like this in game, partly out of seriousness, partly out of the humor factor.

"Well, take mah tusks and call meh a Voodoo, dat's gotta be dee funniest t'ing Ah ever be seein'!"
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#9
One of the quests points out that the Murlocs (Deep Ones) worship Dagon. It's all ripped straight from Lovecraft, and there's some theory stuff on WoWwiki that guesses other Ancient Ones may be present and/or heavily-cribbed-from in Azeroth.
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#10
A troll would be more likely to say

"By de voodoo."
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#11
This might broaden the spectrum when it comes to choosing a likely set of beliefs for your character.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Religions
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#12
Quote:The Holy Light
Members: humans, Ironforge dwarves, Wildhammer dwarves, high elves, naaru, draenei, half-elves, blood elves (somewhat)
Organizations: The Silver Hand, The Argent Dawn, The Scarlet Crusade, The Brotherhood of the Light, The Sha'tar, The Aldor, The Scryers, the Hand of Argus, the Blood Knights (somewhat)

Just playing Devil's advocate and pardon me for being dense...but when they say Blood Elves worship the holy light (somewhat) what does that mean?

It would seem logical to me that a human Paladin that worships the holy light would be granted powers...as would a priest.

If you (somewhat) worship the holy light wouldn't you only be granted (somewhat) powers? Why would the holy light grant you holy powers if you were only (somewhat) holy? Is there an intelligent force here or is holy light just some universal energy they tap into? It makes sense to me that they could tap the light and steal power...it makes less sense that not exactly following the light would give them the same benefits as a true worshipper.

For some reason this part of Warcraft lore has always been very confusing...and the more I read the more confusing it becomes rather than more clear.

Signed,
Dispaya the hopelessly confused
Sing True Ironsong!
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#13
Quote:The followers of the Holy Light do not worship any gods, at least not directly. Instead, it is a philosophy, training its followers to seek perfection within themselves.

Ok..well I found this quote that somewhat sheds "light" on my questions.
I still don't get how "somewhat" following the light grants you priestly powers.
Would you go visit a Doctor who was only "somewhat" of a Doctor? heehee

-=((D))=-
Sing True Ironsong!
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#14
This is just a guess but when they say "somewhat" I am thinking they are stating that not ALL blood elves worship the holy light and those that do, do not worship it in the same manner as others do through pure faith. It just seems like its more for personal gain than anything (since that appears to be the ongoing impression of the BE lore).

But then again it doesnt mean a BE cannot worship the Holy Light through faith, I am now thinking thats why its consistently vague, to leave it open to personal imagination.

*EDIT* I just read the second of your posts Dispaya, I am actually leaning towards the concept that worship of The Holy Light is more of a philosphy rather than fait to a god/entity per se. The Holy Light does exist (given the visual proof a Priest uses the very energies). The only things I could think of in real life to compare to is the chinese concept of Chi Energy, an energy that exists in all things, Martial artists train to manipulate the Chi energy and ultimately strive to perfect their understanding of it.

The more a Blood Elf Priest understands the Holy Light the more they can manipulate it and "fill" themselves with that energy (not just for addiction but for usage of powers). The less a priest understands it the less power they have since they do not know how to "fill" themselves with it and cannot manipulate it to any great extent. The very source of this energy as with all magical energy could have Derived from the "Well of Eternity" (I may be mistaken on that).

End of Rant....sorry Tongue
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#15
You are scaring me Eru because that actually made sense ;-)

In terms of philosophy Chi or "Ki" is also a force talked about in Zen philosophy...which I do try to adhere to. The main difference being that Zen would probably say perfection is something to strive for but it could never be truly attained.

Of course...Faeriel could follow the holy light and strive for perfection also...but I have a feeling she thinks she is already perfect.

D
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