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Feral Druid Tanking
Rawr! As a feral druid, I support Kosath's tanking gear suggestions and such. I wonder... is there any guide for us leather-wearing tanks?
Mellith, I would suggest talking with Amato about that. He helped me so much with Mahiah when I had her feral specced. He put up with my endless questions with infinite patience. He is the god of tanking druids.
Don't mess with the trees!

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."

~Bill Cosby
I will be sure to seek him out when I get back!
All of these points sound like they can be summed up by the phrase "L2P n00b!"

Ahahhaa- but seriously. DW'ing and 2H'ing is cute, but at 60 it's generally a good idea to know everything about your class.

Oh, and druid tanking in raids: good fun but NO. There is no epic quality gear to support this. I already have almost 5k hp and 7k armor, but with no parry, block, def stance, and the fact I will never get to +80 def....bear tanking becomes a memory, man.

I'm still missing a lot of key feral tanking gear, but even if i had that..... =*(
Urlacher, your knowledge of feral druidry is good enough that I know you can make a better post than that. We both know that the stat measure of a bear tank is not the same as the stat measure of a warrior tank. Druid can get their armor and hp high enough to at least significantly mitigate their lower defense value and have a few other advantages here and there.

I'm interested in what you have to say if you care to post a more balanced description. If you are feeling too negative about it for that no problem, the purpose of the thread isn't to run down feral druids but to help them be the best they can given the state of things. That said, an understanding of their limitations can be useful too. You and Amato probably have the most experience of those on the forum in this area.

I assume you won't take offense to any of this; none is intended and I think I'm less blunt here than you might be yourself. ::grins:: Fair enough?

"She is a soothsayer. She’s a mystic. She is a witch doctor, able to see into people’s hearts and minds. She’s also touched by the elements." -Naomie Harris
*Cracks his knuckles*

Alright. This is by no means meant to be a comprehensive guide. It's merely what I can recall at this particular moment in time. As my account is currently down until I get a new job, I cannot verify most of the numbers I would have liked to post, and hence will be stating a lot of what Amato has. So without going into too much miserable, painful detail (Trust me, it's painful)...

Bear tanking is not about Defense. This is the big problem a lot of people have with the idea of Druids acting as tanks. Defense is a very useful skill. It ups Parry, Dodge, Block, and chance to avoid being crit. Druids only have two of those four abilities, thus severely limiting the usefulness of Defense. But, at the same time, it is still critical. I have tanked some places that most people would probably not expect a Druid to survive tanking. Being crit HURTS. A lot. That hurt translates directly into problems for you and your healers.

How do we deal with this? One of three ways. First and most obvious: Armor. Amato currently, with -one- epic item (And a low level one at that, Warden Staff) has approxmiately 12K armor.That's... A little less than a 70% damage reduction against a level 60 attacker, if I remember correctly. The problem here? How many attackers in raid instances are level 60 or below? Few, if any.

Second way. Hit points. Seeing as the only Horde race that can be Druids are the Tauren, we've got a slight advantage in this respect to begin with. Add on to that the inimical bonus of Dire Bear Form, and we're capable of reaching upwards of 7-8K HP just like any warrior.

Third way. I've heard a lot of talk about this being a positive and a negative. I tend to consider it more of a positive. Dodge chance. I tend to think of this as a good way to mitigate our lack of Parry and Block options, but I do not personally rely on it. I'm considering putting together a Dodge tanking outfit to run some tests, but so far the material costs (Even for things I can craft myself) have kept me out of it.

Now... A word on something else very important to raid instances. Resistances. To use an example... Ragnaros. Akora's guide states a Main or Off-tank should have at least 300 Unbuffed FR. Currently, Amato has 198 Unbuffed FR and is capable of reaching much, MUCH higher with a little more work. I have not yet applied any Librams, for example, leaving +40 out of the equation. Only about half his actual armor has any FR on it.

As a closing note, much of tanking for any class comes down to two things: Gear and ability. This is especially true for a Druid, as there is almost no viable +Def gear we can use and getting our hands on much of the higher-end resist and armor gear is... Frankly, rather akin to pulling teeth. Especially the crafted parts. Whereas a guild will work to outfit their Warriors, a Druid is generally told one thing, "If you can get the materials by yourself, we'll make it for you."
Well Said Amato!
Vote Akora for MA!
I'm going to pull a Merrina here and edit myself.

As a feral druid, and one who understands the lack of gear available and the limits of our class... I wasn't saying that druids should replace other warriors in raids. I was simply excited at the idea of playing a non-healing role for a change. I will do my best not to get excited about such things from now on.

*edit* I'd like to think that genuine requests for suggestions or help from guild members won't be met with sarcastic comments like that, even if they are supposedly in jest. I am assuming that Urlacher was referring to warriors since that paragraph included talk of dual-wielding... but I still found it a bit offensive.

Amato, thank you for your explanation. I'd like to talk to you more about this at a later date if you're up for it.
Mellith, no need to moderate your enthusiasm because of Urlacher's comments. He doesn't have the authority to tell you what you can and can't do in an instance or raid. He's mostly frustrated with itemization issues for druids in addition to his usual sunny demeanor. ::grins at Urlacher::

As Kosath says, it tends to come down to math - only 3 classes can heal of the 8 currently available, so putting our excess of warriors to work tanking rather than taking from our potential decursing/heal team is the easy answer. Doesn't mean we dont want to or won't ever have druids tanking, just makes it hard.

Anyway, to counter the notion that a Bear can't raid tank, here's a nice little video. Granted, this guy is reputed to be one of the best geared ferals in WoW period, but it shows a bit of what can be done:

Bear vs. Garr: Who needs banish?

I also apologize for the confusion caused by my splitting the thread off of the warrior announcement. Urlacher's comments at the start of it, while no less abrasive (even if meant humorously), are in fact directed toward warriors. It does not reflect the opinion of Tribe leadership to any degree.

"She is a soothsayer. She’s a mystic. She is a witch doctor, able to see into people’s hearts and minds. She’s also touched by the elements." -Naomie Harris
I was previously remiss in making this comment.

Urlacher - your post is in violation of our Code of Conduct and not for the first time. You have been warned.

Quote:1. Be respectful. At all times. This is not optional. Show respect
to your Tribemates, and to your fellow players, regardless of their
faction or affiliation. We are all playing this game to enjoy it, and
being rude or disrespectful to another player does not enhance
anyone's enjoyment. If it enhances your own enjoyment, you are
probably in the wrong guild. Being respectful is easy enough if you
think about it. Even players that you dislike or seem unable to get
along with can be treated with respect. When all else fails, the
IGNORE filter is in place for a reason.

You've taken issue with this rule before but nonetheless it is still in place.

"She is a soothsayer. She’s a mystic. She is a witch doctor, able to see into people’s hearts and minds. She’s also touched by the elements." -Naomie Harris
The tank in that video, Hugehoss, was fairly active on the druid forums on the WoW website awhile ago. (he may still be, I rarely read them though). I do remember he posted several good tanking guides and gear lists for feral druids, they may be stickied somewhere or findable. Good stuff if you can dig it up.
Oh, two other things while I remember them.

First... All of this I have written so far is from my own research and experience. None of it is taken from anywhere else, and I have, in general, made a habit of studiously avoiding the WoW Forums. So if anyone can find something interesting there, I'd love to read it.

Two... Enchants vs Armor Kits:
The only armor kits that have -any- real value to a Feral Druid are Core Armor Kits... And I certainly don't have access to those yet. Armor bonuses from Kits are NOT multiplied by our Dire Bear Form multiplier. The +3 Defense from a Core Kit would be interesting as a supplement, but again... Hard to get. The best bet is probably to find stat enchantments (Primarily +All Stats or +HP/+Sta).
Shillatae Wrote:Anyway, to counter the notion that a Bear can't raid tank, here's a nice little video. Granted, this guy is reputed to be one of the best geared ferals in WoW period, but it shows a bit of what can be done:

Bear vs. Garr: Who needs banish?
I've always trusted in druid tanking.. But wow.. If I hadn't seen that I wouldn't have beleived it possible.. Confusedhock:
What is the best thing in life?
Crush enemy, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.
<--- Has a 60 druid on maelstrom
If you are interested in maximizing your bear tanking ablility (and a druid can tank anything from ZG down with ease if they have the gear) there are some items you really want to get

Cloak of warding (this is a crafted cloak you need guardian stones, but you should be able to easily solo the guardians in Un'goro to get them)

Warden Staff (best bear tank weapon in the game ((that I know of)) it has stam armor and defense on it lots of fun, put +15 strength on it and good to go)

Bone Ring Helm (Rattlegore in scholo I can't think of another helm that has that much stamina and armor that is leather)

+armor rings these are incredible If you haven't done the turtle escourt quest in Tanaris go do that and pick up the 150 armor ring. There is a ring from BRD The Nagerling that has defense and armor and a damage shield on it

smoking heart of the mount If you are an enchanter and a druid this thing is for you, armor and +7 to all resist on it

Also go get your idol of ferocity from BRD.

It is also very much worth maxing out the thick hide talent if you are serious about bear tanking.

Keep your eyes out for rings, and trinkets that have +armor on it. +Armor items benefit a bear druid so much more then they do a warrior it is almost sad.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=zzLV0oZxgxscMdtV">http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=zzLV0oZxgxscMdtV</a><!-- m --> as a suggestion for a talent build also from what I hear omen of clarity lasts 10 mintues now
If you can't get ahold of a warden staff, the Unyielding Maul (250 armor, +12 Stamina, +8 Defense) from DM is a good alternative. (The warden staff has 10 more armor, 2 more defense, and 1 less stamina, so they're pretty comprable)

Also think carefully about which quest rewards you take- oftentimes there will be a 'caster' one and a 'melee' or 'tanking' one, sometimes it's worth forgoing the caster upgrade (even if you're primarily a caster) because the feral upgrade is much, much harder to find an equivalant to anywhere else.

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