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Cataclysm and roleplayed conflict
#1
I need advice for setting up for the next expansion.

I want to encourage some real, serious conflict based roleplay in /gu. I am, frankly, totally out of ideas on how to role play more cookies, vague crafting activities, and tea/beer.

Come Cataclysm, we have faction leaders changing *significantly* in the horde, and all of our characters in one way or another have an opinion about these changes. Many characters disagree on if this is good, bad, or details about these things. Many factions will be *pissed* at their faction mate Orcs, Trolls, Undead, etc...

I *want* to have in game disagreements and have psychological and political debates in /gu, but have found that I usually get yelled at in /ooc or in /whispers when I previously tried (a long time ago) to foster and roleplay a fully in-character conflict.

How can we make this happen? Maybe an OOC symbol that this is all in character conflict (*), maybe a little /ironsongooc nudge when a new person logs in?

- Phoronid: Has gotten fat on cookies and wants some good old fashioned orcish anger!
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#2
That sounds like an awesome idea Phoro. Perhaps when we all have a moment, You and the Ironsingers (and anyone else who wants to) can see what we can come up with!
[Image: 3994085VvROm.png]
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#3
Great!

Having mulled this over, I would love to simply discuss a clear way to allow actual verbal conflict role play in /gu as soon as possible.

Frankly, we all are stuffed with cookies and tea and need some good old fashioned yelling. Plus, I intend for some of my characters to defend some of the less popular new NPC leaders roles, and I want to get started with the arguments!

- - -

A few guideline ideas, mostly aiming at a simple idea that players are way more important then characters.

1) Communicate OOC before assuming anyone is mad OOC when they are role playing that they mad IC if you stumble upon the scene. (Example: Realizing that while Phoronid is often not fond of Tursiops, the player gets along great!)

2) Communicate OOC during a verbal RP clash, via the OOC channel or whispers. Heck, that can be half the fun! ("Ooh, good insult!")

3) No physical combat in /gu that would involve actual wounds, unless agreed upon ahead of time OOG. (a.k.a. Slaps are great, stabbinating, not great. Telling us the results of the dual you actually had in awesome detail = Really great!)

4) No "adult" themes in the conflicts. Keep it PG-13, please.

5) If anyone says "stop" out of game, stop the roleplay ASAP. (Quite simply, nobody should have to explain why they find something not fun. All they should have to say is "please stop this line of roleplay for now, thank you.")

6) Whenever possible, resolve the conflict in /gu, be true to the character. (e.g.: Orcs and Blood Elves are STUBBORN! Revel in it!)

- - -

Does that seem like a good start? Loremasters? Talespinners? Bueller?

- Phoronid: "Give Garrosh a Chance!"
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#4
I'd say those seem like pretty fair guidelines. I'd like a little input from the other Ironsingers, as well, though.

I for one, am entirely for conflict ( you all seem *so* suprised Tongue ). It makes for good RP. That being said, I've also had a few individuals take my RP to an OOC context thinking I was personally mad at them. We'll definitely have to find a clear way to clarify the distinction between IC conflict and OOC conflict. I know ICly Luc and Phoro have gotten into it more than once, and I've enjoyed that, 1) because it was fun and entertaining to see how long we could go back and forth with insulting each other, 2) it was something that not a lot of people get into. Phoro, you've always been good about making it known that what you are saying is strictly in-character by either, whispering me or giving me a heads up in the OOC channel. We'll wait to see what the other two active Ironsingers ( Melikar and Anca) have to say, and see when they are available for a sit down chat between the four of us, but I like your ideas and would love to see them implemented.
[Image: 3994085VvROm.png]
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#5
I like it.

This was something I was aiming for on Kardwel some time ago. He was *rough* when he joined the tribe. To the point where I had to be told to turn down the insults and cold attitude. But that was what made Kard who he was. A lot of bad crap happened to him and he didn't want anyone to get close to him again because of it. He likes to argue, and that should be brought out IC.

I believe the leadership in Cata will certainly bring about some great debating and arguing RP. Also, with the new class changes, we're certainly going to have fun there. Smile
[Image: AWOeJWn.png]
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#6
I'm glad to see this talked about.

Note that I, for one, dislike conflict and tend not to not participate in conflicted storylines. I find it very stressful to log on to see guild chat full of people who are pretend-fighting, god-moding each other into headlocks, insulting each other, hurting each other, sneering at each other etc. So when the guild dives into a bout of conflict like this, Zlinka goes silent and is careful not to interact with those characters to avoid being drawn into an encounter that is stressful for me as a RL person. There are periods in guild history when Zlinka has been silent for months on end, because guild chat is so full of RP conflict and anger. I have also turned off guild chat for a few days when it gets really bad, and I don't like doing that. So be aware that conflict is fun for some, but it can alienate others.

I am NOT saying that conflict shouldn't be done. Conflict may be valuable and entertaining if it is done well. Ironsong is a big tent with room for many types of RP, including spirited conflict.

Things that are important to me are:

(1) Remember that we are all in the same Tribe. Tribesmates are not enemies. Mutual respect is a core part of our Code of Conduct, both in character and out of character. So do not do anything IC that would violate the Code of Conduct (including god-moding, stabbing each other etc.). If you do, expect in-character consequences like reprimands, IC banishments etc.

(2) Make it clear that the conflict is IC, not just to your conflict-mates, but to people who are watching on the sidelines (like me). That would help me, at least, not log off depressed and upset at all the hostility. A periodic note in OOC would help.

(3) Try to add in bouts of friendly RP sometimes. Make sure your character isn't *only* about conflict with others -- that's very limiting. For example, it helps to reach out occasionally with non-conflict-based RP "hooks" to those who don't want to fight, so guild chat isn't always dominated by two or three characters sniping at each other. It also helps to RP scenes when your character isn't angry (or unpleasant, hostile, depressed, weepy, full of angst, whatever). A well-rounded character has many facets. Make sure to share more than one with us.

I think Phoronid's suggestions are good ones -- I just wanted to add my two cents, as someone who wants others to have a good time doing what they enjoy, while also protecting my own enjoyment of the game.

-Zlinka

P. S. A former officer, Damoxian, did this very well. His character was 'evil' and prone to conflict with others, but he balanced this out by (a) well-written, articulate descriptions of almost cartoon grumpiness -- it was clear that he was having a good time RPing Damoxian, and was not actually angry; (b) he never god-moded anyone -- for example, he'd cast a hellfire and describe the flames in rich detail, and then let other characters react in their own way; © he was a really nice, helpful RL player (in party chat, in whispers etc.), so it was clear that the character and the player were separate people, and (d) several times a year he'd put Damoxian through a malfunctioning goblin transponder that turned him sickly sweet, hugging fawns and petting kittens (literally) which made everyone laugh, showed he had a sense of humor about his character, and made us all wish for the return of the grumpy Damoxian.

I am not saying to copy what Damoxian did. But be conscious of the character you are crafting for public display in guild chat, and make sure it's someone who gives us good reasons to tolerate -- maybe even enjoy -- its presence in our guild.
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#7
Zlinka Wrote:I'm glad to see this talked about.

Note that I, for one, dislike conflict and tend not to not participate in conflicted storylines. I find it very stressful to log on to see guild chat full of people who are pretend-fighting, god-moding each other into headlocks, insulting each other, hurting each other, sneering at each other etc. So when the guild dives into a bout of conflict like this, Zlinka goes silent and is careful not to interact with those characters to avoid being drawn into an encounter that is stressful for me as a RL person. There are periods in guild history when Zlinka has been silent for months on end, because guild chat is so full of RP conflict and anger. I have also turned off guild chat for a few days when it gets really bad, and I don't like doing that. So be aware that conflict is fun for some, but it can alienate others.

I am NOT saying that conflict shouldn't be done. Conflict may be valuable and entertaining if it is done well. Ironsong is a big tent with room for many types of RP, including spirited conflict.

Things that are important to me are:

(1) Remember that we are all in the same Tribe. Tribesmates are not enemies. Mutual respect is a core part of our Code of Conduct, both in character and out of character. So do not do anything IC that would violate the Code of Conduct (including god-moding, stabbing each other etc.). If you do, expect in-character consequences like reprimands, IC banishments etc.

(2) Make it clear that the conflict is IC, not just to your conflict-mates, but to people who are watching on the sidelines (like me). That would help me, at least, not log off depressed and upset at all the hostility. A periodic note in OOC would help.

(3) Try to add in bouts of friendly RP sometimes. Make sure your character isn't *only* about conflict with others -- that's very limiting. For example, it helps to reach out occasionally with non-conflict-based RP "hooks" to those who don't want to fight, so guild chat isn't always dominated by two or three characters sniping at each other. It also helps to RP scenes when your character isn't angry (or unpleasant, hostile, depressed, weepy, full of angst, whatever). A well-rounded character has many facets. Make sure to share more than one with us.

I think Phoronid's suggestions are good ones -- I just wanted to add my two cents, as someone who wants others to have a good time doing what they enjoy, while also protecting my own enjoyment of the game.

-Zlinka

P. S. A former officer, Damoxian, did this very well. His character was 'evil' and prone to conflict with others, but he balanced this out by (a) well-written, articulate descriptions of almost cartoon grumpiness -- it was clear that he was having a good time RPing Damoxian, and was not actually angry; (b) he never god-moded anyone -- for example, he'd cast a hellfire and describe the flames in rich detail, and then let other characters react in their own way; © he was a really nice, helpful RL player (in party chat, in whispers etc.), so it was clear that the character and the player were separate people, and (d) several times a year he'd put Damoxian through a malfunctioning goblin transponder that turned him sickly sweet, hugging fawns and petting kittens (literally) which made everyone laugh, showed he had a sense of humor about his character, and made us all wish for the return of the grumpy Damoxian.

I am not saying to copy what Damoxian did. But be conscious of the character you are crafting for public display in guild chat, and make sure it's someone who gives us good reasons to tolerate -- maybe even enjoy -- its presence in our guild.

Good notes to take into consideration, Zlinka.

And Damoxian left before I ever met him, but all I've heard is good stories. Smile
[Image: AWOeJWn.png]
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#8
Not all role playing needs to be done in guild chat...never forget the power of /say...
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#9
I was only able to skim this over cause i'm running late.

But i wanted to point out something. alot of peple are getting ic and ooc mixed up when it comes to conflict. I"m still fairly new to the tribe and my only example is wollfe vs aracna. wollfe was a great antagonist (i hope he comes back soon) that alot of people wanted out of the guild...ooc. It was refereshing to have a fight and character planning together to find ways of "getting rid of him" even people i had never seen in rp chat were plotting with us. but then others went to officers complaining and wanted the character thrown out of the guild. so we had to stop to keep the peace. i'd love to bring that back up again, wollfe characerwise is tribe and he does love ist and wants to protect it...hes just a little over jealous and crazy.
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#10
As I said, figuring exactly how this is going to work out will take some discussion between Phoro, the RP officers and the Ironsingers. As soon as we have a better idea of what is going to happen with it, this forum will be updated.
[Image: 3994085VvROm.png]
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#11
JettaNyx Wrote:wollfe was a great antagonist

I wouldn't say "great" at least not at first. If our only point of reference for you is you being an a-hole, we are going to assume you are an a-hole. You can't be over antagonistic to everyone all the time and expect to stick around. There has to be something to show your guildies, at least OOCly that demonstrates your true colors. Now he did eventually talk in OOC chat in a friendly and reasonable manner and that's great, but you kind of need to start with that.
[Image: IST_Noodle2_sm.jpg]
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#12
Does anyone have any resources on how the goblins are going to behave? Are they going to be like every other goblin NPC in the game, greedy and totally profit oriented? What is their view of the various horde races? What is their view on the alliance?

I would like to treat cataclysm as a clean slate as far as my participation in RP and intend to roll a goblin hunter up to 85 before I even touch my other toons- so his character is going to be the one needing developing.

-Jäger, In honor of my very first Silver Hand toon.
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#13
Kaerrah Wrote:I would like to treat cataclysm as a clean slate as far as my participation in RP .

I would like the guild to take this quote in mind, as it is a good one. I intend to use it as a battle cry, more or less. Wink


Also, Zlinka - Great post. Agreed 100%. (Hence my last guideline, Anyone in the channel has the right to say "stop it" to a scene and it stops. Sometimes we just can't handle even seeing that kind of thing, and that should be understood and supported 100%.)

- Phoronid
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#14
Right, I'm not much for guildy on guildy violence... However if say, Zlinka and Aracna were having a heated battle and, as they were wrestling, happen to fall into a puddle of mud, I don't think I would step in.
[Image: IST_Noodle2_sm.jpg]
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#15
Glad this is being discussed, and in a positive way. However, I would just like to say that we may all have different ideas of what "conflict RP" might mean. To some, it might be simple disagreements while to others it may include any conflict up to combat. I think it will be VERY important for everyone involved to realize that IC actions carry IC consequences.

For example, if Krell were to escalate a simple argument with say, Lucinther, where Krell begins beating him senseless and refuses to stop or apologize for his IC actions, Krell should expect punishment which may include being banished (guild kick) from the Tribe. Personally, I have a problem with people who use RP as a license to do anything they want regardless of how it affects others. If someone was consistently argumentative and combative there would be no redeeming reason for the Tribe to keep them. Balance is the key.

I look forward to some excitement come Cata.
Shantow the Bear
The Ironsong Tribe


"The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed." King
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