Possible change to guildchat

[Guest]

I agree with mel. I said it before as a fear and now it does seem to be happening. We are no long going to be an RP build but just other regular guild.

[Guest]

RP requirements.

We don't require anyone to RP over guild chat.

I think that adding out of guild RP by a simple switch in channels, would both add new opportunities for RP, but would also encourage IST members to be the best character actors - as the proud channel host IST members and to grow RP on Silver Hand.

No, but we require them to RP if they're going to use guild chat, why? Because we're an RP guild. Same reason applications are IC and new members are, short of scheduling conflicts, required to attend a moot for introduction and induction. It's a bare minimum requirement. You don't HAVE to participate in RP, but besides raiding most official guild activities including the main channel, are in character. It's the defining difference (as far as I'm concerned) between an RP guild and a PVE guild. If I wanted to be in a PVE guild that has RPers in it, I'd be over on my Greymane alts.

And I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm not against adding a public RP channel. And would personally like to see it as specified as RP outside the guild hall. But to change guild chat to in character is to stop pretending that the tribe puts RP up as its mandate.

[Guest]

I guess I might as well throw in my 2cp. I've been in other RP guilds before, and a requirement for IC guild chat didn't define whether or not they were actually an "RP Guild". I, personally, have always preferred face-to-face roleplay over the sort of nebulous nature of g-chat, with everyone pretending to be in a guild hall, etc. There's a disconnect of sorts, for me. Either way, I'll keep playing, and I do speak up in g-chat from time to time, and would continue to RP in whatever capacity is available for as long as I'm a member of the Tribe.

I'm honestly a bit surprised at how divisive a topic this seems to be. I've only been here a short time, but I consider all of you my friends, so I know whatever happens, I'm sticking around, and I'm personally for the change, but I won't be hurt or angry if it doesn't come to pass, because I'll still have the Tribe.

[rincewindy]

Wow, it's amazing how much there is to consider. Perhaps I was too quick to agree to the switch?

Firstly, I think we need to figure out what kind of RP guild we are.
Casual RP? Strict RP? RP/Raid?

Secondly, if RP is the main focus of the guild, and with the changes coming in Cata, where guild rep can be achieved by RP, then would it be detrimental to our rep if we have people who only want to RP with us, but want to raid with another guild? (thus losing that rep)

Thirdly, If we do want to be considered a heavy RP guild, then I believe we should keep Guild Chat as RP, and go with a third channel for guests who want to RP with us. That way we don't lose IronsongOOC, and it's still open to guests.

Fourthly, I think that there are a lot of people on that do want to RP. I have experienced this firsthand. However, I know that lately there have been quite a few worldly distractions that may cause one to miss/not be able to RP dedicatedly. Also, I personally find extremely difficult to raid/do dungeons and participate in guild chat.

Fifthly, I find you can learn alot about other characters by RP'ing on the totem. And it's Awesome!!!

[Guest]

Fifthly, I find you can learn alot about other characters by RP'ing on the totem. And it's Awesome!!!

The totem RP has been great recently, kudos to those that got it moving! *cheers*

/slight off-topic derail

[Lucinther]

unfortunately right now, i don't have the ability to post what i want to say, thanks to the last minute decision to have me work tonight, but i will get to it tonight.

[Guest]

I am so sick of seeing the RP vs. Raiding argument on this forum. It's half the reason I left the guild with my main. Raiding and RP aren't mutually exclusive, or at least they shouldn't be. I stopped RP-ing on Aliss BECAUSE so many of the active RP-ers were so hostile to those of us who were also devoted raiders. It made the guild as a whole less pleasant to be a part of. And at that juncture, IST wasn't serving either my raiding or my roleplay interests.

I love to roleplay. I also love to raid. However, while I can--and do--roleplay outside of WoW, I can't raid outside of WoW, so when I felt IST forced me to choose one or the other, raiding won and I pulled my main from the guild. (I'm far from the only person who's done this, btw.) Then, yes, I went kind of stir crazy when the patch hit because I wanted to roleplay it. Not crazy enough to bring Aliss back, but it was still disappointing.

That said, I don't have a strong opinion regarding what channels IST members roleplay on. Personally, I'd like to see the change, but that's really just me being selfish because I want to keep my raiding AND be able to roleplay on Aliss. However, no matter what is decided on this particular issue, I do think that IST needs to make some major decisions about the direction of the guild overall because what's happening now simply isn't working.

--Aliss, who primarily just hears about the guild through Mirounga these days, but who also enjoys roleplaying in guild on that rare occasion she logs in her lowbie.

[Donalzon]

This is something that I mentioned last time we debated the nature of our guild. When I joined, I did it understanding that this was an RP guild. Was that why I joined? No. By some of your definitions I would not be a desirable candidate. I came to play with my RL friends (Wakaraina, Mellith, Orenthas) and to raid. I was interested and willing to consider RP and although I wouldn't say I'm the most active RPer, I've filled out an in character application, attended a fair number of moots and participated in several RP events (My favorite being Kardwel's 'purification') and even participated in guild chat. We've never demanded that the players that join be active RPers, why should that start now?

Had I seen some of the sentiments in this thread I would've strongly considered not applying. Luckily I didn't, and as a result I've grown as an RPer and become an active, and I hope successful guild member. I think that is a success story for the tribe. We are not going to recruit fully active and devoted RPers at this point in WoW's lifespan. As a result we are going to lose players if we don't allow for candidates that are interested in raiding and the often marginalized PVP and crafting/economy crowd.

I feel that what we are discussing here was never meant to be a departure from the goals of the guild in practice or in theory. What we are discussing is the pros and cons of some, what I feel are minor, structural changes to the chat channels. This is a discussion for our betterment and evolution as a guild. I think what Kretol says has some merit to it. If you know Kretol you know that he loves RP and has done a lot to support and promote it. Sreng is very clear about this remaining an RP guild. That is enough for me.

If it makes people more comfortable to do a gradual or trial change that is fine by me. I'm not sure whether creating a new chat channel for RP and making GC an OOC channel will effect the amount or quality of RP. I'm willing to give it a try, and then revisit the issue in a few weeks. I think making the channel semi-public will allow some quality players (Shantow, Nganga to name a couple) to join us for RP and grow the RP community more. I also like the idea of the convenience of using guild chat to talk about RP questions promoting events and getting to know each other. If the change does seem to harm the quality and quantity of RP then we can always go back to our current system.

Another point that had been hit upon is that there needs to be some clearer RP channel guidelines. I've always played it as the guildhall but never knew that was the expectation. Like-wise it might be good to list other expectations of conduct and rules of chat for the RP channel e.g. no physical violence against characters, who are the authorized moderators and who to report problems to. I'm sure there are some other things to throw in there.

I also like what Blizzard is doing with the game moving forward. There seems to be greater emphasis on in game events that we can respond to. I'm discovering and exploring the world both on my own and through RP and OOC discussions. It's safe to be optimistic about our RP opportunities moving forward. We should be cautious not to damage what we have, but I think this is a good starting point for some needed change.

[Guest]

Well I understand what Mel and Kerrah are saying and in my honest opinion I think that the guild channel should stay as a IC channel. I have been reading what has been said about how and why guild chat should be ooc but in my experience most of that has and sometimes still is done in Ironsongooc I mean if you want to encourage lore with quizzes and such why not just do that in Ironsongooc? I do like the idea of a public RP channel because sometimes when I'm playing on my non-guilded alts I find that it becomes hard to keep playing them for extended periods because I feel like I might be missing out on some good RP happening in guild chat. I also liked the idea of the /gchat being considered the guild hall and the opt in channel being for out in the world rp or in like some communal place like I think someone said something about us building a bar next to the guild hall when we rebuilt.(You know the tribe loves its booze!) I don't know it's just nice to have a known setting to RP in.

As to the thing about people choosing raiding vs. role-playing I think that a global RP channel might actually help increase recruitment of people who are both good at raiding and role-playing because they aren't mutually exclusive. But I think if we are a role-playing guild we should continue to encourage all members to role-play. I'm not saying that they have to have a fully developed character concept from the get go but at least do what I do with my alts and get a good idea of a general personality before joining the guild. You don't even have to RP all the time, I know that at times I have been busy with work and/or school and haven't found the time to get on and enter into a big RP discussion in gchat but I still enjoy seeing those other people RPing with each other and reading the stories here on the forums and it has helped me to grow my own skills at RPing. And now I feel like I have been rambling incoherently too long on simple subjects so to sum it up: I’m for keeping guild chat as a IC channel and I’m for implementing a new global RP channel for oog alts and friends and just to help boost interest in general for RPing on Silver Hand.

[Guest]

If we have /gu and /ironsong both RP channels, one will be unused.

[Lucinther]

So I've done quite a bit of reading on this topic at work. I have a few questions.

Why are we trying to make the guild channel what the IronsongOOC channel already is?
Why change a system that already works? We've been doing RP in the guild channel for years. People who join us, join us because they want to RP. Now, I'm not saying that they strictly want to RP the entire time they play.... but they join with the expectation that guild chat is for roleplay and we have a designated channel for OOC chat. After all, that is in our rules, so are we going to entirely do away with the guidelines we already have and create new ones? That's making more work than is needed.

Why make an RP channel?
I understand the argument that it could *possibly* open us up to new members, and give us a new chance to interact with them in an RP environment.... here's the thing.... How many tells do you receive on a daily basis saying, " do you guys have a global RP channel that I can join?!". Developing an RP channel that is for " open world" RP also doesn't make sense. There are a good number of us who will RP randomly in random zones.... Dalaran for instance. Now, I'm not talking face to face RP in some tower where no one can see the /emotes and /says.... But sitting on the sidewalk of Dalaran having a conversation... or sitting in the inn at a table having a conversation... Some of us do this on a *daily* basis.... and I still don't get swarmed with " omg do you guys have a channel i can join so i can RP with you?!" Yes, the potential is there.... however... the potential of things and the reality of things are entirely different.

Why has this become an RPer vs Raider battle again?
I can see and understand Sreng's reasoning behind wanting to try this. He's doing what he thinks he has to to keep the guild going. I mean, after all, he is the creator/leader of a guild that has been on this server almost as long as the server has exsisted. He's not trying to say we're becoming a raiding guild, but he is trying to appeal to those who raid over RP to allow everyone in the guild to be able to fully experience the expansion content.

Will opening the guild channel to OOC really benefit us?
Essentially, what we'd be doing is switching the channels around... someone mentioned that GC should be used for questions about lore, ooc banter, suggestions for events.... We already have this... its called IronsongOOC. why are we going to make an RP channel just to make the OOC chat, essentially, exclusive to just the guild. Someone brought up the point that the OOC channel could still exsist for those outside the guild.... But Mirounga brought up a wonderful point.... If the guild chat is being used for one type of conversation, the channel dedicated for the same thing but for " those not in the guild" one of them isn't going to be used.

If our guild chat is OOC, is our application process going to change to facilitate those that aren't joining to RP?
This will be going against what Ironsong is. We'll start to see a considerable amount of applicants, for sure... but how long will the majority of us put up with seeing "leet speak" in guild chat? I don't know how many people feel this way, but I can say for sure, that its a nice break to be able to not see everyone trying to turn everything into an abbreviated form of a word... If we open ourselves to the raiding community, and change our application process to reflect such, that's what we are going to inevitably end up with.

How many hardcore raiders do we actually have jumping at the chance to join the Ironsong Tribe?
If they wanted to join the Tribe that badly... they would have already applied. While we may be one of the longest running guilds on this server... the raiding guilds, the good raiding guilds, of this server have been established for quite awhile.... When you say "raiding guild" Ironsong is not the first thing that springs to mind.... a guild like Wartorn is what comes to mind. We've been inviting members for years that have wanted to raid and have been willing to at least attempt RP to do so. Those people show that they are actually dedicated to the guild. We can't force people to RP, but we've never had to. People join Ironsong with the understanding that we are an RP guild and know that there *will* be RP that is done openly. We've never had an issue with the channel structure yet, so why cause confusion by switching everything up? Fact of the matter is... not everyone reads the forums... not everyone is going to know whats going on... not everyone is going to know that we are creating new channels.... Sure, you can put it in the guild info tab, but, honestly... how many people actually check that, aside from those of us who occasionally change the MOTD?

Essentially, this is the same topic as changing the guild forum to another site.... Why fix something that isn't broken?

[Guest]

I've honestly never really understood that supposed expectation, that Guild Chat must be IC or it's not really an RP guild. I mean, in the end, I don't really care either way. I'll RP regardless of what channel it's in, lol. I just find the sort of heat and divisiveness this topic brings up...odd. *shrugs*

[Guest]

I personally always feel the most connected to RP with my fresh rolls - who might be very low level. I hate waiting until Level 20 to join the RP. I'd love an /Ironsong channel which I can immediately jump into.

[Guest]

Whether or not guildchat is IC or OOC doesn't define us as an RP guild. In other words, if GC is IC, we're an RP guild, if it isn't, we aren't. I don't subscribe to that point of view, and that's what it sounds like some of you folks are saying.

[Guest]

Essentially ... .... Why fix something that isn't broken?

I think the essential point being made in other entries here is that what we have now *is* broken. Simply. I am not going to rehash the thread, but I think it all boils down to perception of 'working' and 'not-working'. Reasons vary, and responses vary, but some are feeling very disconnected and some are happy with the status quo.